EU referendum

[BigJoe#1]

Not sure why you have tagged me this post as I've not posted on this thread for over a week!

Kippaxwarrior, should e been @KippaxCitizen

Sorry mate, my mistake.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

Oh ffs. Yes you have kids. People voting out also have kids.

Scouts will still be able to travel around Europe on holiday.

Keeping repeating you're voting for your kids is irrelevant. People voting out are doing so as they think it's better for them and their kids as well.

That's bollocks Sam mate. You know for a fact my ability to travel around Europe depends on my coherent ability to use European flights.

 

[Blue Hefner]

On Thursday do I vote for the same thing that is wanted by the BNP, UKIP, Britain First, EDL, Farage, Gove, The Sun and Daily Mail ?

Or do I vote the opposite ?

Hmm. Tough one

I'm sure they are equally dislikeable people/establishments on the remain side - I'm no fan of UKIP but I will be voting 'out'

 

[DelToro]

So you think free movement of labour works against the British?

Understanding of the language means that the UK presents itself as a positive choice for many Europeans looking to migrate.

Whether that works for or against the British depends upon your political/social/cultural perspective.

 

[kippaxwarrior]

Kippaxwarrior, should e been @KippaxCitizen

Sorry mate, my mistake.

No worries

 

[SWP's back]

That's bollocks Sam mate. You know for a fact my ability to travel around Europe depends on my coherent ability to use European flights.

Eh. No it doesn't. And nothing I said was bollocks.

 

[InMyLifetime-BaconChops]

On Thursday do I vote for the same thing that is wanted by the BNP, UKIP, Britain First, EDL, Farage, Gove, The Sun and Daily Mail ?

Or do I vote the opposite ?

Hmm. Tough one

What a ridiculous argument. If you're going to vote to Remain, at least do it for the right reasons; like we're stronger collectively etc...not that one.

Most ridiculous argument in the campaign; it's an in or out question. Not a political party one. Corbyn does want to leave in reality, can't argue that. He's practically been to every anti EU lobby there's even been but people only attack Boris Johnson for being a 'coward' for some reason I can't fathom, he's not the only one with a political agenda. You complain of Gove backing leave, but not Cameron and Osborne backing remain?

And you, mistakenly I'm sure, left out the former Head of the Bank of England wanting to leave.

 

[SWP's back]

Understanding of the language means that the UK presents itself as a positive choice for many Europeans looking to migrate.

Whether that works for or against the British depends upon your political/social/cultural perspective.

To clarify, do you think free movement of labour has a net positive impact on British born workers?

 

[whp.blue]

Is that excluding the 98% votes we are on the winning side with?

But he wasn"t talking about what we agreed with though was he ? And when we have disagreed we have lost 40 straight not really a recipe for change. We only win when we agree!

 

[GStar]

Started off (selfishly) wanting to vote out. We're one of the 'bigger' players in the EU, which logically (in my head) means we'll be asked to input more than others to help the whole. We're also a small island, especially in terms of landmass and out infrastructure feels generally quite poor (public transport, roads etc) on a daily basis, especially compared to other European cities

However, (and imo the main point that needs to be taken away from this farce) is that both sides have gone into spin and hyperbole and no coherent argument has been presented for either side. For me, it's on the Leave campaign to show/prove that leaving the EU will be of a benefit to the country as a whole (and to myself). I'm more confused than when the debate started, better the devil you know and all that. So, felling forced to be conservative (with a small c), i'll be voting In.

Thought it interesting that for all the talk on immigration, it's actually a net contributor to the economy (or so it's being reported), i.e we (people paying tax in the UK) benefit from immigration as it currently stands. I also wonder that, should we leave, the money and resource we'd 'save' (which itself seems to be a debatable subject) would not cover the additional resource we would require short/medium/long term to set ourselves up independently. Thus costing the average UK taxpayer more and not 'giving our people and services i.e the NHS' additional funds.

 

[DelToro]

To clarify, do you think free movement of labour has a net positive impact on British born workers?

I genuinely don't know.

The reason why I contributed to this thread was to challenge your assertion that migration works both ways equally.

Do you accept that the equation is more nuanced? That actually most workers in the European mainland have better cause and ability to work in the UK than vice verse?

 

[SWP's back]

I genuinely don't know.

The reason why I contributed to this thread was to challenge your assertion that migration works both ways equally.

Do you accept that the equation is more nuanced? That actually most workers in the European mainland have better cause and ability to work in the UK than vice verse?

I certainly do yes.

I didn't expect a lefty to pull me up on free movement of labour being a positive though.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

But he wasn"t talking about what we agreed with though was he ? And when we have disagreed we have lost 40 straight not really a recipe for change. We only win when we agree!

That's democracy!

 

[DelToro]

I certainly do yes.

I didn't expect a lefty to pull me up on free movement of labour being a positive though.

I'm only a lefty when compared to you.

But otherwise, you accept that the migration of labour is a much more sophisticated, ambiguous and culturally sensitive issue compared to the migration of capital?

 

[InMyLifetime-BaconChops]

Started off (selfishly) wanting to vote out. We're one of the 'bigger' players in the EU, which logically (in my head) means we'll be asked to input more than others to help the whole. We're also a small island, especially in terms of landmass and out infrastructure feels generally quite poor (public transport, roads etc) on a daily basis, especially compared to other European cities

However, (and imo the main point that needs to be taken away from this farce) is that both sides have gone into spin and hyperbole and no coherent argument has been presented for either side. For me, it's on the Leave campaign to show/prove that leaving the EU will be of a benefit to the country as a whole (and to myself). I'm more confused than when the debate started, better the devil you know and all that. So, felling forced to be conservative (with a small c), i'll be voting In.

Thought it interesting that for all the talk on immigration, it's actually a net contributor to the economy (or so it's being reported), i.e we (people paying tax in the UK) benefit from immigration as it currently stands. I also wonder that, should we leave, the money and resource we'd 'save' (which itself seems to be a debatable subject) would not cover the additional resource we would require short/medium/long term to set ourselves up independently. Thus costing the average UK taxpayer more and not 'giving our people and services i.e the NHS' additional funds.

That's the problem. It's a whole load of unknowns from both sides and no answers.
If we leave, will the money we save be put towards public services?
If we stay, will TTIP end the NHS? What will the EU be like in 10 years? Federation? Will there be an army?

NO one bloody knows and that's the biggest problem

 

[SWP's back]

I'm only a lefty when compared to you.

But otherwise, you accept that the migration of labour is a much more sophisticated, ambiguous and culturally sensitive issue compared to the migration of capital?

I would yes, though I personally still think it's way down the line in terms of importance for this referendum.

Anyway, the only thing I'm right wing on is economic policy.

I couldn't be more yoghurt knitting and liberal on everything else.

 

[DelToro]

I would yes, though I personally still think it's way down the line in terms of importance for this referendum.

Anyway, the only thing I'm right wing on is economic policy.

I couldn't be more yoghurt knitting and liberal on everything else.

Migration, or to be more precise, net immigration, is the fundamental tenet on which this referendum is being fought for most undecided people.

The inability/unwillingness of the Remain side to skewer this issue is disappointing.

 

[mcfc1632]

The NHS is exempt but don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

Hmmm - you believe that do you.............. Well on the face of it you are right, as an example:

"The British government has the opportunity to use a veto to exempt any public services from the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), a fact confirmed to IBTimes UK by the EU's Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht in a recent interview.

A spokesperson for the Department of Health has told this publication that the NHS is not up for discussion, saying: "We have no intention of allowing the TTIP to dictate the opening up of NHS services to further competition; and it will not do so."

in politics all promises/commitments etc. are kept? Nice world your trusting head lives in.

IMO it would only be a matter of time - and on this subject I think that I am able to consider my opinion to be reasonably well qualified.

 

[inchy14]

On Thursday do I vote for the same thing that is wanted by the BNP, UKIP, Britain First, EDL, Farage, Gove, The Sun and Daily Mail ?

Or do I vote the opposite ?

Hmm. Tough one

Hmmm, do I support West Ham because Ray Winston, Danny Dyer and some other fuck wit does or the opposite, tough one.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

That's the problem. It's a whole load of unknowns from both sides and no answers.
If we leave, will the money we save be put towards public services?
If we stay, will TTIP end the NHS? What will the EU be like in 10 years? Federation? Will there be an army?

NO one bloody knows and that's the biggest problem

But we won't save money, we'll lose money because we'll miss out on so many of the benefits of being in the EU and I reckon the EU will make a point of being hard to work with, with us, because they won't want others to leave so negotiating our own trade like Norway do won't happen because if it's that easy for us it'll be that easy for everyone else and in the end many will leave the EU.

We will be a poorer country if we leave