EU referendum

[Metal Biker]

I find it patronising that people on the right like farage are trying to claim the working class to further their cause.

I am working class as are my friends and family, educated localIy only got a city and guilds and some GCSE's s worked since school and always been left wing, that pompus bigot doesn't speak or represent me or anyone I know.
I don't listen to knobs like cameron either in how I judge my view on this vote, I find it laughable that Johnson, gove, patel etc have looked down on the working class amd the north for years, but because they are saying leave the slyness of these people is ignored.

Both sides look down on the general public and patronise them, the difference is when society is shot to shit because of 30 years of it soul being ripped out and communities destroyed (not by immigration but by greed at the top) the offer of another option seems more appealing to what we have

Right wing does not equal working class.

Most people of a working class background know this and I think we're mostly centrist, neither wholly left wing or right wing. Sadly it's becoming increasingly obvious, especially as the recent general election and referendum campaigns have shown, that people of a middle class background believe in the stereotype that working class communities are right wing, uneducated racists. It could also be argued as that is why support for Labour has dwindled after they sought the middle class votes.

 

[urban genie]

Right wing does not equal working class.

Most people of a working class background know this and I think we're mostly centrist, neither wholly left wing or right wing. Sadly it's becoming increasingly obvious, especially as the recent general election and referendum campaigns have shown, that people of a middle class background believe in the stereotype that working class communities are right wing, uneducated racists. It could also be argued as that is why support for Labour has dwindled after they sought the middle class vote.

Right wing does not equal working class.

Most people of a working class background know this and I think we're mostly centrist, neither wholly left wing or right wing. Sadly it's becoming increasingly obvious, especially as the recent general election and referendum campaigns have shown, that people of a middle class background believe in the stereotype that working class communities are right wing, uneducated racists. It could also be argued as that is why support for Labour has dwindled after they sought the middle class votes.

No thats not what I am saying, I never said they were right wing

but firstly middle class people don't think like that it's a fabrication of the right wing press to divide this "momentum or labour supporters are middle class socialist" is bollocks, to class the middle class in general as looking down on the working class is just as sneering and patronising.

My main point was that this use of the working class by twats like farage is an age old right wing tactic to missapropriate something or someone to further a divisive agenda, Manchester and Northern cities prove who the working class mainly lean too and that is the labour movement whether left or centre.

Farages attempt to use and exploit the working class is no different to the nf appropriating the skinhead (that was multicultural mod and inclusive) movememt amd st george in the 70's for their own agenda

 

[whp.blue]

Basically the older or less educated you are the more you move towards Brexit they younger better educated the more remain seems to be the story.

Luckily for us the thick old bastards are more likely to get off their arses and vote

 

[Metal Biker]

No thats not what I am saying, I never said they were right wing

but firstly middle class people don't think like that it's a fabrication of the right wing press to divide this "momentum or labour supporters are middle class socialist" is bollocks, to class the middle class in general as looking down on the working class is just as sneering and patronising.

My main point was that this use of the working class by twats like farage is an age old right wing tactic to missapropriate something or someone to further a divisive agenda, Manchester and Northern cities prove who the working class mainly lean too and that is the labour movement whether left or centre.

Farages attempt to use and exploit the working class is no different to the nf appropriating the skinhead (that was multicultural mod and inclusive) movememt amd st george in the 70's for their own agenda

Ignore Farage, he's not even a member of the official campaign to leave the EU, nor should anyone base their decision on the effectivness or messages of either the StrongerIn or Vote Leave campaigns. The campaigns were only there to give people information about the effects of staying and the effects of leaving and catagorically its been agreed that both campaigns have failed in their messages. There isn't a single person i've spoken to (roughly 40) be it friends, family members, strangers on the street, who have stated they have made up their mind based on the campaign messages, nor have they had their decision influenced by them.

I don't plan to vote leave because i believe what Boris and Vote Leave has said, or because of Farage's toadying of 'the British People'. Neither have those in the In campaign done anywhere near enough to convince me of the advantages and benefits of the EU are worth sacrificing our sovereignty and democracy for, and i've discovered, personal experience only here, that many feel the same way.

They've done their own research and come to their own conclusions and there's little to suggest, up in Manchester at least, that Farage has had any influence on their decisions. We're not voting for StrongerIn, we're not voting for Cameron and Gideon. We're not voting for Vote Leave, or Boris and Gove, nor does a leave vote mean you support Nigel Farage or UKIP.

Is the United Kingdom better off remaining a member or leaving the European Union? That's what people should focus on and let the press have their little 'personality war', using Cameron, Farage, Boris, Izzard and Geldof to sell their papers and get views. Fuck 'em all.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Ignore Farage, he's not even a member of the official campaign to leave the EU, nor should anyone base their decision on the effectivness or messages of either the StrongerIn or Vote Leave campaigns. The campaigns were only there to give people information about the effects of staying and the effects of leaving and catagorically its been agreed that both campaigns have failed in their messages. There isn't a single person i've spoken to (roughly 40) be it friends, family members, strangers on the street, who have stated they have made up their mind based on the campaign messages, nor have they had their decision influenced by them.

I don't plan to vote leave because i believe what Boris and Vote Leave has said, or because of Farage's toadying of 'the British People'. Neither have those in the In campaign done anywhere near enough to convince me of the advantages and benefits of the EU are worth sacrificing our sovereignty and democracy for, and i've discovered, personal experience only here, that many feel the same way.

They've done their own research and come to their own conclusions and there's little to suggest, up in Manchester at least, that Farage has had any influence on their decisions. We're not voting for StrongerIn, we're not voting for Cameron and Gideon. We're not voting for Vote Leave, or Boris and Gove, nor does a leave vote mean you support Nigel Farage or UKIP.

Is the United Kingdom better off remaining a member or leaving the European Union? That's what people should focus on and let the press have their little 'personality war', using Cameron, Farage, Boris, Izzard and Geldof to sell their papers and get views. Fuck 'em all.

People have forgotten to listen. Socialism exists now in north London like some cool club. With Eddie, Diane , Bob and Jezza having dinner parties talking about how much fairer life and society should be. Talking about it but doing little. It's easy to say this in your 2 million quid house,

Where are they are on the streets of the north talking to people about their concerns and actually listening? This little club does not represent ordinary people it patronises them. Look at Gordon brown and that life long labour member from Rochdale a few years ago. She dared ask him about migration and he showed his true colours calling her a terrible racist. Labour never listened and lost the election ( twice)

Even now remain camp and the Labour Party are not listening to ordinary people's concerns . Rightly or wrongly these are concerns and need listening to. They should not just be dismissed as simple racism by these people they need to listen and represent, these concerns are here , they are not made up. If people do not feel they are listened to then they listen to extreme views. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) the remain camp and labour have completely ignored ordinary people in the north again. The outcome could turn on that mistake ( again).

 

[Metal Biker]

People have forgotten to listen. Socialism exists now in north London like some cool club. With Eddie, Diane , Bob and Jezza having dinner parties talking about how much fairer life and society should be. Talking about it but doing little. It's easy to say this in your 2 million quid house,

Where are they are on the streets of the north talking to people about their concerns and actually listening? This little club does not represent ordinary people it patronises them. Look at Gordon brown and that life long labour member from Rochdale a few years ago. She dared ask him about migration and he showed his true colours calling her a terrible racist. Labour never listened and lost the election ( twice)

Even now remain camp and the Labour Party are not listening to ordinary people's concerns . Rightly or wrongly these are concerns and need listening to. They should not just be dismissed as simple racism by these people they need to listen and represent, these concerns are here , they are not made up. If people do not feel they are listened to then they listen to extreme views. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) the remain camp and labour have completely ignored ordinary people in the north again. The outcome could turn on that mistake ( again).

Labour Leave needed to have a much bigger voice, in my opinion.
Their arguements for leaving are pretty much the same as Vote Leave's campaign, yet I wonder if many traditional Labour supporters would criticise them with the same vitriol?
http://www.labourleave.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/LL-8-page-FINAL-14.1.16.pdf

There's been all the talk of how the Conservatives are split over this but little airtime has been offered to the Labour voters and MP's who support a Brexit.

 

[Blue Til Death]

Dear God, this is just embarassing now. Leaving Europe won't get anyone a job and a council house any sooner.

Brexit will lose big, btw.

Very embarrassing indeed Pam... I'm just putting the humble pie you will be eating in the oven ... We will continue this discussion at the end of next week ... Custard or cream with your Pie??

 

[mcfc1632]

No. The possible economic disaster would be if the Eurozone crumbled if we left which would cause a massive global recession that would make 2008 look like a walk in the park. But that is worst case scenario.

So we have to suck it up for the sake of the Eurozone? Yes I know we will be badly affected as well but the Eurozone is going to go tits at some point - best we manage for our own best interests than just accept being tugged along and becoming collateral damage.

 

[steviemc]

Ignore Farage, he's not even a member of the official campaign to leave the EU, nor should anyone base their decision on the effectivness or messages of either the StrongerIn or Vote Leave campaigns. The campaigns were only there to give people information about the effects of staying and the effects of leaving and catagorically its been agreed that both campaigns have failed in their messages. There isn't a single person i've spoken to (roughly 40) be it friends, family members, strangers on the street, who have stated they have made up their mind based on the campaign messages, nor have they had their decision influenced by them.

I don't plan to vote leave because i believe what Boris and Vote Leave has said, or because of Farage's toadying of 'the British People'. Neither have those in the In campaign done anywhere near enough to convince me of the advantages and benefits of the EU are worth sacrificing our sovereignty and democracy for, and i've discovered, personal experience only here, that many feel the same way.

They've done their own research and come to their own conclusions and there's little to suggest, up in Manchester at least, that Farage has had any influence on their decisions. We're not voting for StrongerIn, we're not voting for Cameron and Gideon. We're not voting for Vote Leave, or Boris and Gove, nor does a leave vote mean you support Nigel Farage or UKIP.

Is the United Kingdom better off remaining a member or leaving the European Union? That's what people should focus on and let the press have their little 'personality war', using Cameron, Farage, Boris, Izzard and Geldof to sell their papers and get views. Fuck 'em all.

Fair point. The majority of people I've spoken to regarding the referendum have not been the slightest bit interested in toeing a political party line or appear to have been swayed by a particular personality.

Most of these people wouldn't probably have any interest in being labelled left wing, right wing, socialist etc., or give a stuff what the terminology actually means. Nothing wrong with that in my view.

 

[Daz_Blue]

I got to vote even tho I live in USA ...postal vote went in to leave the EU ....... fuck the unelected cash cow that are Euro leaders .....