EU referendum

[Tim of the Oak]

I think Ealing, Tim and Chippy are actually on a shift rota

A combination of working in Glasgow, Manchester, Leeds, London and Manchester this week had caught up with me lol. I fonts know what the other guys excuses are lol!

 

[halfcenturyup]

Your separation of these issues is purely technical. Everyone knows that Bojo joined the Brexiters to progress his Tory leadership aims. If Brexit win then Bojo is a shoe in for the next Tiry leader and probably PM. Can you not understand this or do you choose to bury your head in the sand!

So you are saying that people should be voting in this referendum on personalities rather than the issues?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

That is true and a reason quite a few people have mentioned to me that they have decided to vote leave - yet they simply cannot stop themselves - voting self-harm.

The reality is (and this is more in response to SWP's post) that the hatred in the national media campaign on immigration had got out of hand. I made this point more than a week ago. Anyone denying the recklessness of parts of the national media on this issue most think the world is flat.

I am no do gooder e.g. I wasn't one of the many Bkuemooners complaining about the Jihadi John song!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

So you are saying that people should be voting in this referendum on personalities rather than the issues?

On the substance of what will happen in the next months and years.

 

[halfcenturyup]

On the substance of what will happen in the next months and years.

So Johnson is an irrelevance. As is Farage, Cameron and all the other twats.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

And how many times have politicians given us supposedly cast-iron assurances or promises that later proved to be completely worthless?

George Bush Snr in 1988 - "Watch my lips; no new taxes".
Barraxk Obama's pledge to shut Guantanamo Bay.
David Cameron/George Osborne in 2010 - We will eliminate the budget deficit by 2015. They still haven't succeeded. Now it's 2019 but that's looking less and less likely.
David Cameron - There will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS, in 2010. They then undertook the biggest top-down reorganisation of the NHS in its history.
David Cameron - We have no plans to increase VAT, before the 2010 election. They then increased it to 20%.
David Cameron - No cuts to tax credits, before the 2015 election. Then he cut them.
David Cameron - We will cap care costs in 2016, before the 2015 election. They then abandoned that promise.
Etc.
Etc.

And these are elected politicians so forgive me if I treat any promises of the un-elected EU Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom with a large pinch of salt. This is the woman who openly said (about the TTIP negotiations) "I don't take my mandate from the European people".

Good post PB and yes many politicians would sell their Grannies for the right price. The difference this time is that the Tories have had a trial (of sorts) on what TTIP would mean for the NHS and the Government (in the main) recognise a political disaster when they see one.

Andrew Lansley's "Liberating the NHS" top down reconfiguration of the NHS cost roughly £4 billion. He was stopped from opening the NHS to US insurance companies on a big scale but that's what would have happened if Lansley handnt been slapped down.

Of course we need more guarantees on TTIP. For me the key thing is the outcomes rather than the process of getting there. We can be pretty confident that when Bojo and Gove lead the Government the NHS will be privatised. We can see what Gove has done to education and most Londonders views Bojo's term as major as a disaster - hence why the Tories have been bombed out!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

So Johnson is an irrelevance. As is Farage, Cameron and all the other twats.

Bojo will be PM if Brexit wins. Do you see that as an irrelevance?

 

[steviemc]

That is extremely offensive to people who risked their lives and in the case of quite a few of my forefathers died fighting or in the case of pacifist risked life and limb to save comrades , but I doubt you meant it as offensively as it could be taken. They fought precisely so Europe could be peaceful , tolerant and strongly against the ideology of people like Farage.

Please don't speak on behalf of the my forefathers - you have no right to such an unfounded presumption.

Furthermore, this referendum isn't about politicians. The sooner people grasp this simple concept, and stop pretending to foresee the pattern of future party electorates based on the referendum outcome, the better.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Please don't speak on behalf of the my forefathers - you have no right to such an unfounded presumption.

Furthermore, this referendum isn't about politicians. The sooner people grasp this simple concept, and stop pretending to foresee the pattern of future party electorates based on the referendum outcome, the better.

It is a worrying trend from posters on here trying to tell people what they can and cannot write. I thought the Brexiters were the fans of denocracy?

You are trying to close down a genuine line of discussion. Politics includes personalities as well as policies etc!

 

[CityStu]

Bojo will be PM if Brexit wins. Do you see that as an irrelevance?

He'll probably be PM if Brexit doesn't win as well though. That, or it'll be Osbourne who's proved himself as pretty inept and uninspiring.