EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
BigJoe#1 said:
Blimey such an outpouring of arrogance and complacency in one go.

You deserve to be on losing side for even believing that, never mind posting it!

To answers your opening question.. Simply No. I don't think the EU could stand a Brexit, but that is no reason to stay. It us already widely thought that if we leave the natives of other nations Netherlands and Germany amongst them will press to have their own referendums to enable them to leave.

Brexit will be the end of the EU as we know it, I think that is indisputable, it could not continue without our cash. Selfish maybe but that cannot be our problem.
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What's not to believe a group of Asian based economists and media not believing Brexit could win because It was too much of a risk at such a volatile time. It's not surprising is it really they have an in vote priced in. It is opinion of those not close to the vote from afar looking at a global potential crisis and evaluating it's likely hood.

You miss the point though as if you believe that the EU and by default the Euro will collapse , with a currency crisis and banking crisis as well as recession which it would Bring do you think anyone could survive it without massively increased deficits, unemployment rising etc. Are you willing to play with people's economic existence for more powerful vacuum cleaners and an imaginary sovereignty that long ceased to exist?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Couple of things.

I never said all the Euro laws are bad some are good. Yes our governments introduce crap laws as well. That isn't the point it's the principle of the separation of law makers with voters.

Countries not part of the European union around the world have progressed their own legislation over the same period on similar topicsand I am sure we would have don exactly the same.
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Yes of course we would. All the arguments that only the EU protects worker rights etc.etc. are spurious to say the least. These faux arguments should always be countered with the fact that not only would we have instigated similar laws anyway but they would have been written to better suite the UK rather than broad brush laws written to appease 27 nations with very different needs and cultures.

How anyone can think that a law passed in the EU is equally pertinent to Germany and Greece is completely beyond me. What actually happens is these compromised laws end up being ignored by many states but invoked in the UK where our sense of duty makes us more likely to enact all the EU regulations as soon as is practical.
 
blueonblue said:
Correct me if I am wrong but Australia does have a strict immigration points system in place, the very one UKIP has consistently called for in fact, does that mean you can now see the difference between controlled and unfettered MASS immigration ?.
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Australia has some very good immigration policies and some I humane and disgusting political ones. There are elements of refugee, elements of family, elements of application and elements of skilled base immigration here. Most now from Asia and the fastest growing stream from South Asia. Australia would be farages nightmare 30% foreign born and will soon be a 30% Asian populated country
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Stop devaluing your own arguements and trying to score cheap points. What he actually said was true.

What the EU is striving to achieve, a single Europe, is similar to what Napoleon and Hitler were striving to achieve. They went about it in a much more horrific and aggressive manner and were not so keen on power sharing, but the end objective is the same. A single Europe under one governing power. Be a sensitive soul and feel free to take offence if you must, as did all the UK Remain supporting press but if you cannot understand the point being made I suggest you be kind to yourself and hide your ignorance and naievity by moving on.
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That is an argument in utter semantics , does the fact both Churchill and Stalin wanted to defeat hitler make them the same. They had incredibly different aims for Europe - napoleon wanted a greater France ruled by him and populations subjugated this is a greater France not a greater Europe

To try and pretend Boris was making a historical point is en more laughable , he was trying to appeal to the lowest base prejudices of the voters and it appears for some people it worked . Sadly it just makes him look backward, pathetic and utterly prejudiced around the world a British Pauline Hanson (as that is the type of crap she came out with) and that is not good if he ever becomes PM
 
EalingBlue2 said:
It is a conundrum, people will vote x because someone is saying vote y and they don't trust them , but by voting that way they hand even more power to the person they are in effect going to vote against .
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The fuckers ride roughshod over the British public now and do exactly what they want unless it might lose them an election. Giving Whitehall total control to do as it pleases doesn't sound like the utopian state many think an exit would provide.
'But we live in a democracy' they say and we can vote them out if we want. Well 50 years of living under government rule has given me zero say in how this country is governed. None of them have offered me a referendum on interest rates, the 'war on drugs', cuts to the police, fire brigade, nhs, the HS2 project or privatisation of the education system. Not to mention the little things like council tax rises, sats for 5 year olds or when my kids can go on holiday.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
That is an argument in utter semantics , does the fact both Churchill and Stalin wanted to defeat hitler make them the same. They had incredibly different aims for Europe - napoleon wanted a greater France ruled by him and populations subjugated this is a greater France not a greater Europe

To try and pretend Boris was making a historical point is en more laughable , he was trying to appeal to the lowest base prejudices of the voters and it appears for some people it worked . Sadly it just makes him look backward, pathetic and utterly prejudiced around the world a British Pauline Hanson (as that is the type of crap she came out with) and that is not good if he ever becomes PM
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What on earth are you on about? Why are you brining Stalin and Churchill into the arguement?

The point made was that the EU is trying to create a single state economy and currency. Hitler and Napoleon also strived to do the same albeit by very different means.

You really are undermining your own integrity and intelligence with your inane comments. Nevertheless, if he becomes PM it's nothing for you to trouble yourself about in your current locale.
 
stonerblue said:
The fuckers ride roughshod over the British public now and do exactly what they want unless it might lose them an election. Giving Whitehall total control to do as it pleases doesn't sound like the utopian state many think an exit would provide.
'But we live in a democracy' they say and we can vote them out if we want. Well 50 years of living under government rule has given me zero say in how this country is governed. None of them have offered me a referendum on interest rates, the 'war on drugs', cuts to the police, fire brigade, nhs, the HS2 project or privatisation of the education system. Not to mention the little things like council tax rises, sats for 5 year olds or when my kids can go on holiday.
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A fair argument I don't disagree that Europe and Britain are as good or bad as each other and that all this thing about your vote is that it is pretty much irrelevant unless you live in a marginal and even then your vote is only based on what a group of self interested people convince you is the truth.

I would happily see federalism where it works well but with it far more devolution and far more power going down to the regions and to a level wher communities can choose how to live. I would happily see Europe get more macro power but with it I would like to see a lot more power and devolution given to regions, big cities etc.

you list a lot of cases of utter political stupidity and prejudice there and all of them I believe come from sovereign democracy many are also tools of US foreign policy too. The Donination of government at the UK level seems the worst of both worlds too big to allow any influence to individual people but too small to influence the world. Brexiters sometimes come across like medieval peasants prepared to fight and die so their baron can continue to live in his castle and laud over them and not thinking for one second that whether Baron A or Baron B wins will make no difference to them at all
 
stonerblue said:
The fuckers ride roughshod over the British public now and do exactly what they want unless it might lose them an election. Giving Whitehall total control to do as it pleases doesn't sound like the utopian state many think an exit would provide.
'But we live in a democracy' they say and we can vote them out if we want. Well 50 years of living under government rule has given me zero say in how this country is governed. None of them have offered me a referendum on interest rates, the 'war on drugs', cuts to the police, fire brigade, nhs, the HS2 project or privatisation of the education system. Not to mention the little things like council tax rises, sats for 5 year olds or when my kids can go on holiday.
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You do get a "referendum" every five years... it's called a General Election, in the end you get what you vote for.

If you're saying your vote is diluted and doesn't count for anything, which would be a fair point, just think how little your vote counts for in Europe where the UK has only 73 of 751 MEPs and you get absolutely no say in who directs the Parliament, telling them what the need to debate and what they don't and directing them toward their conclusions....
 
More evidence that the government are manipulating this situation, they know very well that the vast majority of the armed forces will vote to leave the EU and whilst they go on a registration overdrive for students and look to set up a polling tent in the chill out zone in Glastonbury etc there's circa 50,000 service personnel who could miss out - But hey ho a European army is just what they want to be part of!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...sh-soldiers-set-to-miss-out-on-eu-referendum/
 
BigJoe#1 said:
You do get a "referendum" every five years... it's called a General Election, in the end you get what you vote for.

If you're saying your vote is diluted and doesn't count for anything, which would be a fair point, just think how little your vote counts for in Europe where the UK has only 73 of 751 MEPs and you get absolutely no say in who directs the Parliament, telling them what the need to debate and what they don't and directing them toward their conclusions....
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BigJoe#1 said:
What on earth are you on about? Why are you brining Stalin and Churchill into the arguement?

The point made was that the EU is trying to create a single state economy and currency. Hitler and Napoleon also strived to do the same albeit by very different means.

You really are undermining your own integrity and intelligence with your inane comments. Nevertheless, if he becomes PM it's nothing for you to trouble yourself about in your current locale.
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You are equating an entity with a person and painting them the same because they had part of a shared goal, I am highlighting the logic of that and showing what nonsense it is.
The comparison was boris's attempt to appeal to the worst in people and it's sad that is the best he can do, scare tactics to appeal to the lowest base
 
EalingBlue2 said:
You are equating an entity with a person and painting them the same because they had part of a shared goal, I am highlighting the logic of that and showing what nonsense it is.
The comparison was boris's attempt to appeal to the worst in people and it's sad that is the best he can do, scare tactics to appeal to the lowest base
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And of course Boris is the only one doing this.... Now I understand you!
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Australia has some very good immigration policies and some I humane and disgusting political ones. There are elements of refugee, elements of family, elements of application and elements of skilled base immigration here. Most now from Asia and the fastest growing stream from South Asia. Australia would be farages nightmare 30% foreign born and will soon be a 30% Asian populated country
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So your happy to lord over the growth without acknowledging that the control of who is brought into the country has a major part in that growth ?.
 
blueonblue said:
So your happy to lord over the growth without acknowledging that the control of who is brought into the country has a major part in that growth ?.
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Australia's growth comes from what lies under ground and proximity to Asia - the engine of worlds growth and not who comes in.
 
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