EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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sir baconface said:
This old chestnut yet again. Who's advocating turning off the tap?

Just renew the leaking washer and replace the rusted pipes.
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The brexiters are playing the immigration card as their last desperate attempt to win , if they do win the card is played and can't go back in the pack and a significant minority's will be left very angry if they attempt to let the tap remain on. It is a dangerous game.

If someone is prepared to take the very brave steps to reduce consumption, increase savings and really turn off the tap then good luck to them but I don't believe the average voter will make the sacrifices
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The Normans weren't French, they only spoke it. The Normans were Scandinavian. It's a common misconception like thinking Frankenstein is the name of the monster.

Napoleon was a dictator who murdered and slaughtered his own way to supreme power. Funny that; the French complained about having one unelected man in power who ruled everything like a dictator, then after years of slaughter, fear and violence they ended up with one unelected man in power who ruled everything like a dictator. Not exactly a man i'd bring up as an example of being a "great military commnader"; a similar comparison can be made with another individual, but nobody would due to the fact they aren't deserving of any praise, no matter how factually correct it might be.
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They were French n the way Anglo Saxons are British, being pedantic we are all Asian or further back possibly all African . I am not defending napoleons just pointing out the nonsense about French military victories
 
EalingBlue2 said:
The brexiters are playing the immigration card as their last desperate attempt to win , if they do win the card is played and can't go back in the pack and a significant minority's will be left very angry if they attempt to let the tap remain on. It is a dangerous game.

If someone is prepared to take the very brave steps to reduce consumption, increase savings and really turn off the tap then good luck to them but I don't believe the average voter will make the sacrifices
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I haven't heard a single person say turn off the tap.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
They got rid of the last English King with a victory at Hastings, it's fair to say that Edward 1 , Richard 1 etc were French and them napoleon was probably the best military commander Europe has seen but let's not spoil a good story.

I am still wondering with unemployment dropping again and an ageing population exactly what will happen if the tap is turned off?
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Good old Harold Goodwinson.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
How many times did Russia attack directly a NATO member during the Cold War?
Name any European country that attacked another NATO member?

NATO didn't have to intervene because everyone knew what would happen if they did attack a NATO country. Britain, France, Germany oh and the US with 8,000+ nukes would have done something about it. Nobody's that crazy.
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Are you still at it? I thought you had given up given that posting GIFs is Bluemoon Code for losing the argument!

You are beginning to argue with yourself since you said in an earlier post that NATO was incapable of deterring atrocities in European Countries. You made a fair point then and bodies such as the UN have been shown to be ineffective as peacekeepers as well!
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/un-watched-massa

I've talked about membership of the EU as a means of developing democracies and not NATO!
 
Tim of the Oak said:
So you come up with a post without any benefits of leaving the EU lol!R
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One thing you cannot come up with is a solid economics benefits case got leaving the EU, just as you cannot deliver the same for staying in the EU, it is all scenario based supposition.

You cannot tell me that we wouldn't have been much better off if we had never been part of the EU, that we wouldn't have had the feedom to develop our own trade agreements with the world outside the EU, that we have been slowed down to an embarrassing level in everything g we rely in the EU to do because we need everyone's sign off on everything. People who want to leave can only make these points as an opinion, there are no actual facts attached to them - and the same applies to those people who wish to remain.

Yes, if course there have been some perceived benefits for being in the EU, but there have also been some major dis-benefits and these need to be understood and discussed sensibly, not denied and attacked and the proponents ridiculed.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
They were French n the way Anglo Saxons are British, being pedantic we are all Asian or further back possibly all African . I am not defending napoleons just pointing out the nonsense about French military victories
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They. were. not. French. They did not adopt French customs, they did not adopt French culture, their ancestry came from the Vikings who settled in Northern France (who surrendered Normandy without much resistance, just a little fyi there.) Nothing about that makes them French, just their ability to break language barriers to make trading with their new 'neighbours' easier. (Some French citizens speak English, does that make them English?)

The Anglo-Saxons were not "British", they were Germanic. Britain is the name of the island, given by the Romans. The 'Britons' were a collection of Celtic and Gaelic communities that were then conquered or dispersed by the Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons themselves did not regard themselves as being 'British'.

The French being bad at fighting isn't nonsense when you consider their record in war is one of the worst in history, especially in regards to how long the nation has existed. The stereotype isn't one born from schadenfreude but historical fact. Someone has to be the worst at something, as it happens, its the French. Here's a few examples of why the French have to endure such japing.

Gallic Wars. Lost.

Hundred Years War. Mostly lost.

Italian Wars. Lost.

Thirty Years War. France wasn't really involved, gets invaded anyway.

The Dutch War. A draw (when England and Germany got involved to help the French)

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War. Lost.

War of the Spanish Succession. Lost.

American Revolution. "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution. Won. Primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars. Lost. (Technically Napoleon WAS a Corsican as well)

The Franco-Prussian War. Lost.

World War I. Saved by Britain and the United States

World War II. Surrendered early on, Northern France collaborated.

War in Indochina. Lost.

Algerian Rebellion. Lost.
 
cibaman said:
Any "Out" vote, will cause Tory party meltdown. I reckon 55% Remain might keep Cameron in his job. There would probably be a leadership challenge but it wold likely be a stalking horse challenger. I would be surprised if Johnson threw his hat in the ring. The risk for him would be that the less rabid Leave MPs would decide to put the referendum behind them and vote for party unity. He would probably wait until Cameron agrees to step down in 2018.
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Agreed on the out vote point. I thinks 55-45 victory would be deemed a massive success for the remainers, whereas anything like a48-52 victory for the remainers through the to any victory for the Leave campaign would be seen as a victory for the Leavers!
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
They. were. not. French. They did not adopt French customs, they did not adopt French culture, their ancestry came from the Vikings who settled in Northern France (who surrendered Normandy without much resistance, just a little fyi there.) Nothing about that makes them French, just their ability to break language barriers to make trading with their new 'neighbours' easier. (Some French citizens speak English, does that make them English?)

The Anglo-Saxons were not "British", they were Germanic. Britain is the name of the island, given by the Romans. The 'Britons' were a collection of Celtic and Gaelic communities that were then conquered or dispersed by the Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons themselves did not regard themselves as being 'British'.

The French being bad at fighting isn't nonsense when you consider their record in war is one of the worst in history, especially in regards to how long the nation has existed. The stereotype isn't one born from schadenfreude but historical fact. Someone has to be the worst at something, as it happens, its the French. Here's a few examples of why the French have to endure such japing.

Gallic Wars. Lost.

Hundred Years War. Mostly lost.

Italian Wars. Lost.

Thirty Years War. France wasn't really involved, gets invaded anyway.

The Dutch War. A draw (when England and Germany got involved to help the French)

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War. Lost.

War of the Spanish Succession. Lost.

American Revolution. "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution. Won. Primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars. Lost. (Technically Napoleon WAS a Corsican as well)

The Franco-Prussian War. Lost.

World War I. Saved by Britain and the United States

World War II. Surrendered early on, Northern France collaborated.

War in Indochina. Lost.

Algerian Rebellion. Lost.
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I cannot believe the debate has reduced to infantile levels such as this!
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Are you still at it? I thought you had given up given that posting GIFs is Bluemoon Code for losing the argument!

You are beginning to argue with yourself since you said in an earlier post that NATO was incapable of deterring atrocities in European Countries. You made a fair point then and bodies such as the UN have been shown to be ineffective as peacekeepers as well!
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/un-watched-massa

I've talked about membership of the EU as a means of developing democracies and not NATO!
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Nooo, the discussion you stated was that the EU is responsible for bringing peace to Europe whereas everyone else acknowledges that it's down to NATO.

I also stated that NATO wasn't set up initially as a "protect Europe" initiative, but has become one due to it's effectiveness at preventing European NATO member countries from being invaded.

Listen, if you don't know of any non-NATO country attacking a NATO member in the last 70 years, just say so. There's no shame in not knowing.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
It was Tory policy in the last election and very clearly it's what Johnson is now playing. But in case of pedantry the switch off may be 90% not total
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So why have the Tory Brexiters failed to significantly reduce immigration from outside the EU, given that they include several Government Ministers.

It couldn't be that the Tories (on both sides) want to keep the labour supply high so that their loaded friends can pay workers less in their businesses then they would otherwise earn!
 
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