EU referendum

[yep]

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I agree with most of what you say. The EU is a disgrace.

Where we differ is that I think it is far too late to leave in 'an orderly fashion'. I think that the consequenses of our leaving will be potentially disastrous for this country and potentially for a wider world. We are considering stepping into the unknown.

For me a close remain vote would be the very best outcome. The EU needs dramatic reform and this would add power to voices for reform. The rise of the far right in many of the EU countries should also have those within the EU taking a good hard look at the direction of travel.

In or out I don't believe the EU will be the same after the vote. Unless it's leaders really are turkeys!

Unfortunately Junker et al see the polarisation of people in Europe as just populism - they really can't see the wood for the trees unfortunately - If it's not the UK then it will be France or Holland knocking on the referendum door and once again the UK will have to hold it's breath to see if it has to pick up the bill with Germany.

We either stay as we are and enter into a Japan style decade of stagnation, create a federal state or watch the euro implode. Take your pick...

 

[grunge]

Gove, Farage and Johnson. Liars plain and simple.

The leave campaign has a legitimate case. The EU is deeply flawed. But all we get is these three muppets insulting the British people with their lies.

If they are selling it would be wise not to buy. As someone has already pointed out these people are in it for themselves and treat the people of this country with nothing but disdain.

Yep, I would have no issue with the leave campaign if it wasn't using some really shit tactics and we actually had some education of what direction the country would take on exit.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Whilst I am not a big fan of the EU I can't help but feel that a vote to leave opens a Pandora's box and no-one knows the consequenses.

As someone who doesn't jump over a wall unless I know what is on the other side I will be voting to remain but I fear there are many whom I would consider reckless only too ready to jump into a potential abyss.

But how can you be so sure that there's no nasty surprises awaiting us in Brussels on Friday if we vote to remain?

We know there's a number of things they've kept quiet about and postponed decisions on for fear of triggering a major surge in the Brexit vote. Things like the Financial Transactions Tax for instance. And logic suggests that if they're keeping shtum then these aren't things that are going to have us jumping for joy.

It's a bit like a woman being in an abusive relationship when she knows she really needs to walk out but is afraid about life outside. So she threatens to go but her partner promises it won't happen again. So she stays but she's just waiting nervously for the next time he rolls in drunk from the pub.

Saying you're voting to stay in just because you're worried about coming out really isn't a good motive. At least do it for positive reasons.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I've not seen anything about the Remain camp being bollocked by the UK statistics watchdog and threatened to be sued ( Nissan are looking at sueing from what I've read ) by some manufacturers for miss representing them.

are you alright with the remain sides threats of tax rises, spending cuts, world war 3 .... both sides have used statistics to try and win the argument, most people see it all for the bollocks that it is

 

[Pam]

But how can you be so sure that there's no nasty surprises awaiting us in Brussels on Friday if we vote to remain?

We know there's a number of things they've kept quiet about and postponed decisions on for fear of triggering a major surge in the Brexit vote. Things like the Financial Transactions Tax for instance. And logic suggests that if they're keeping shtum then these aren't things that are going to have us jumping for joy.

It's a bit like a woman being in an abusive relationship when she knows she really needs to walk out but is afraid about life outside. So she threatens to go but her partner promises it won't happen again. So she stays but she's just waiting nervously for the next time he rolls in drunk from the pub.

Saying you're voting to stay in just because you're worried about coming out really isn't a good motive. At least do it for positive reasons.

Bit desperate, this. Fortunately, I think we're about to find out one way or another when Brexit lose. I very much doubt a Remain win is going to be penalised bythe EU. Quite the reverse, in fact.

 

[grunge]

there is 1 per member state, each member state chooses there representative, im not clear on weather they get changed every election or were selected and get to keep there job regardless of who is in power at the time.

And they can be forced out by the EU Parliament ( the MEP's we vote in) if there is a 2/3rds vote of no confidence.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Gove, Farage and Johnson. Liars plain and simple.

The leave campaign has a legitimate case. The EU is deeply flawed. But all we get is these three muppets insulting the British people with their lies.

If they are selling it would be wise not to buy. As someone has already pointed out these people are in it for themselves and treat the people of this country with nothing but disdain.

cameron, osbourne .... do you not think they are it in for themselves aswell. id say the majority of politicians are in it for themselves.

 

[grunge]

are you alright with the remain sides threats of tax rises, spending cuts, world war 3 .... both sides have used statistics to try and win the argument, most people see it all for the bollocks that it is

I've not seen the world war one I must admit beyond discussions on here, seemed so retarded that I've not bothered digging , that could be seen as misleading and a Lie no doubt. I assumed it was talk on here of the EU has helped maintain peace.

But the threats of cuts and tax rises are exactly that, threats, not lies. they would be lies if we left and they didn't do it, And I dont doubt for a second they would do it!.

 

[Pam]

are you alright with the remain sides threats of tax rises, spending cuts, world war 3 .... both sides have used statistics to try and win the argument, most people see it all for the bollocks that it is

The Remain side are the only ones being backed up by independent experts. Which is probably one of the reasons they're beginning to pull ahead.

 

[grunge]

The Remain side are the only ones being backed up by independent experts.

But.. but.. but experts can be wrong and we're bored of them!.

*sigh*

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I've not seen the world war one I must admit, that could be seen as misleading and a Lie no doubt. But the threats of cuts and tax rises are exactly that, threats, not lies. they would be lies if we left and they didn't do it.

so you alright with the british public being threatened with tax rises if we leave ? . Lies from the leave side aren't good, but both sides aren't doing a great job, lies and threats

 

[MillionMilesAway]

But how can you be so sure that there's no nasty surprises awaiting us in Brussels on Friday if we vote to remain?

We know there's a number of things they've kept quiet about and postponed decisions on for fear of triggering a major surge in the Brexit vote. Things like the Financial Transactions Tax for instance. And logic suggests that if they're keeping shtum then these aren't things that are going to have us jumping for joy.

It's possible, but political suicide for Osborne and possibly the Conservatives as whole if it's true. I therefore doubt it strongly.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

The Remain side are the only ones being backed up by independent experts. Which is probably one of the reasons they're beginning to pull ahead.

beginning to pull ahead ? whats that based on. the polls, which seem to change daily, the same ones that were completely wrong last year. no one has any idea what will happen if we leave they are just estimates and guesses, the same experts who in the main didn't predict the banks crashing, the financial crashes , mass immigration. i think a lot of people have stopped listening to the 'experts'.

 

[Pam]

cameron, osbourne .... do you not think they are it in for themselves aswell. id say the majority of politicians are in it for themselves.

Even a broken clock and all that.

But.. but.. but experts can be wrong and we're bored of them!.

*sigh*

I can't believe how many people I know who've changed their minds these last few days. I am all of a sudden encouraged.

 

[mcfc1632]

and because you're a sanctimonious snob.

Just trying to help - Are you new to this thread?

Just that most people do not engage with the bollocks he comes out with - he is to the Remain posters a bit like Farage is to the Leave side today - all a bit cringeworthy and embarrassing

 

[Pam]

beginning to pull ahead ? whats that based on. the polls, which seem to change daily, the same ones that were completely wrong last year. no one has any idea what will happen if we leave they are just estimates and guesses, the same experts who in the main didn't predict the banks crashing, the financial crashes , mass immigration. i think a lot of people have stopped listening to the 'experts'.

Referendums always swing big to the status quo in the last few days. Scottish independence being a case in point. Brexit need a cushion of a lead but they don't appear to have it. And then there's the Farage psycho going off half cocked at the last minute. Of course nobody knows for sure but I have a good feeling about this now.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Yeah that's right, royally p1ss off the Turks at this delicate moment with Syria.

Genius.

Honesty not the best policy? Best not be straight and up front just carry on misleading either your country by not vetoing Turkey or Turkey by vetoing them?

Why is it ALL politicians would rather lie than tell the truth? As for the point v Syria, meaningless is it not Turkey already have the EU over the preverbial barrel.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Referendums always swing big to the status quo in the last few days. Scottish independence being a case in point. Brexit need a cushion of a lead but they don't appear to have it. And then there's the Farage psycho going off half cocked at the last minute. Of course nobody knows for sure but I have a good feeling about this now.

i think the opposite, but then again like yourself I'm slightly bias, i want to leave. the majority people i know want to leave. i think its going to be very close. i think most people have alread decided. farage has said some stupid things, but i can't see people deciding to change their vote just based on that. one thing that swayed me towards leave is the fear and threats I've been hearing every day on the news from remainers, i.e , recession, tax rises, threats from other countries. I've had enough of it now.

two things for me are getting control of our democracy/laws back and controlling immigration, that can only happen if we leave.

 

[BigJoe#1]

No but the polls are saying it's too close to call and that's probably in the right ball park!

I'm sure the exit polls will be spot on at about 10:00:05 on Thursday! They did with the GE last year.