Everton - Post match thread.

[Dribble]

Very admirable but winning things IS creating legacy.
Yes in the long term I'm sure we will create the legacy you write of, but just look at our squad, look who our manager is. There is no reason why we shouldn't be successful now.
Khaldoon himself said it - he wants success; no texts congratating him on third place.
I thought we showed on Monday that we are ready now. Too many "in the long term" posts appearing, a bit arsenal in nature, but I'm assuming the club want and expect success now and also in the future.

The difference being is that most 'in the long termers' are putting a realistic finite timescale in place and don't subscribe to a 'We've spent big dosh & we've got Guardiola', so we want success now'. Don't you think Maureen, Conte, Teeth, Pochettino & Wenger might have something to say about that? OR are they expected to just lay down & take a collective one up their shitters?

Of course the 'in the long termers' would love instant success, the difference is that I'm prepared to wait as long as I can see a plan and we progress toward it. This is what people and businesses do in every other walk of life, so for the life of me I fail to see why some of us see City as a different matter. When did we become so deserving of success?

 

[Phil1]

I see certain threads have been pulled that could be construed as critical ..Censorship is alive and well then...

I'm sure it won't stop you giving him a hard time at every opportunity.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

The difference being is that most 'in the long termers' are putting a realistic finite timescale in place and don't subscribe to a 'We've spent big dosh & we've got Guardiola', so we want success now'. Don't you think Maureen, Conte, Teeth, Pochettino & Wenger might have something to say about that? OR are they expected to just lay down & take a collective one up their shitters?

Of course the 'in the long termers' would love instant success, the difference is that I'm prepared to wait as long as I can see a plan and we progress toward it. This is what people and businesses do in every other walk of life, so for the life of me I fail to see why some of us see City as a different matter. When did we become so deserving of success?

You seem to forget we have been successful - it's not a We want it now mentality!

 

[The-Dogs-Pollocks]

Brilliantly summed up.

Our owner his here for the long haul and knows our journey isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. It's all about long term sustainability, not just short term gain.

Pep has one year left on his contract after this season. He hasn't brought through one youth team player to date. The club have spent over £200mil on the players he wanted. It's time for him and the team to deliver.

 

[dubblue]

Pep has one year left on his contract after this season. He hasn't brought through one youth team player to date. The club have spent over £200mil on the players he wanted. It's time for him and the team to deliver.

Khaldoon and Pep himself has said as much. This season is huge.

 

[YaYa's Left Peg]

I see certain threads have been pulled that could be construed as critical ..Censorship is alive and well then...

Ahhh. I wondered where the Guardiola thread had gone.

 

[robbieh]

The difference being is that most 'in the long termers' are putting a realistic finite timescale in place and don't subscribe to a 'We've spent big dosh & we've got Guardiola', so we want success now'. Don't you think Maureen, Conte, Teeth, Pochettino & Wenger might have something to say about that? OR are they expected to just lay down & take a collective one up their shitters?

Of course the 'in the long termers' would love instant success, the difference is that I'm prepared to wait as long as I can see a plan and we progress toward it. This is what people and businesses do in every other walk of life, so for the life of me I fail to see why some of us see City as a different matter. When did we become so deserving of success?

Get real mate. We have been outspending everyone bar united for quite a few years now. We also have about half a dozen players who would walk into any of our competitors sides.

Tell me Mendy, Bernardo, Kun, Jesus, KDB, Vk, Sane wouldn't all start for Liverpool, Arsenal and possibly Chelsea.

It would be a fuck up of monumental proportions if we end the season trophy less.

 

[Dribble]

You seem to forget we have been successful - it's not a We want it now mentality!

Of course I've not forgotten that we've been successful, but the 4-5 years of damage that was caused by Pellegrini & FFP seems to have been forgotten. It will take time for us to recover & know what we need to triumph. For example, before Monday night a left back seemed to be lowest on our list of priorities, Fast forward 72 hours, it's now a priority. Why? Because our manager has seen how Everton targeted the left side of our defence because neither Danilo nor Sane are the answer.

Trust me, other cracks will appear, and it's only after Pep has applied the Polyfiller, will we begin to plug the gaps where we are weak & know which players we need to be playing where and in what system to make us most effective. He just needs time.

Pep has one year left on his contract after this season. He hasn't brought through one youth team player to date. The club have spent over £200mil on the players he wanted. It's time for him and the team to deliver.

Pep's been here 12 months and took over a shambles of a team. Give him a chance mate. Also, it's quite evident Pep's idea of a quality young player & ours before he came are two different things. How many of the youth team players that he's jettisoned have been sought after by clubs on our level or better? Name me one.

By the sound of things, Pep is planning to extend his stay. He's continuously talked about City being 10 years behind the like of ManUre in terms of structure and culture. He's already said an extension of his stay will be down to the management & I'd be in favour of him staying to bring that stability & continuity to our club.

All you have to do is look in Pep's face to see he's hurting and desperate to get things right. THAT is the attitude I want to see from our leader. He's also a man with a plan. Most fans agreed on Monday night that after the first two games, we needed Mendy back & cover for him too, as the alternatives of Danilo & Sane aren't up to scratch. Hey presto, 2-3 days later, we're apparently in for a promising young left back to plug a gaping gap.

That is progressive thinking, HOWEVER Pep needs to be given the opportunity to coach his players and mould the team into the effective unit he wants. How's that gonna happen after 12 months with practically half a new squad? He needs & deserves time & we should afford him as such.

Get real mate. We have been outspending everyone bar united for quite a few years now. We also have about half a dozen players who would walk into any of our competitors sides.

Tell me Mendy, Bernardo, Kun, Jesus, KDB, Vk, Sane wouldn't all start for Liverpool, Arsenal and possibly Chelsea.

It would be a fuck up of monumental proportions if we end the season trophy less.

We have been outspending most over the last 2 summer windows, but forgive my memory, but weren't we subject to UEFA sanctions of a maximum spend of £49m for 3 seasons? With UEFA/G14 breathing down our necks and an over-the-hill squad to replace, do you think we should gel straight away and it should guarantee us winning something this season? Don't you think Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, ManUre Chelsea, Everton, PSG, Juve, Roma, Bayern, Barca, & Real will have something to say about that?

If the PL & CL and all domestic cups only included City, then yes, I'd be pissed off if we didn't win the lot especially as we were the only team playing, but we're not. As our first 2 matches of the season have proved so far, we have more acquisitions & fine tuning needed & even then, as we progress, I expect our competitors will do the same. Pep just needs to complete the process of getting the players he needs, & he needs time to bed them in and fine tune our system to suit.

To expect to do all of this within 12 months against the level of top class opposition we'll be facing week in, week out is wholly unrealistic imo. If he manages it, then great, but if he doesn't, I for one won't be calling for his head because I can clearly see he is a man with a plan, he just needs time to implement it & then I believe it will be fair to judge him.

If others see it differently, then that's cool, but it won't be the first time I've spotted something and had to repeat my POV over & over again against a welter of opposing views. It's all good though, as that's what a forum's for as long as the banter remains respectful. :-)

 

[GaudinoMotors]

I do see it differently.
This squad is ready now and the last couple of years we under performed. I agree there were deficiencies, however the squads were strong enough to have competed better than they did.
I know you're trying to take pressure off Pep, but there is no reason this squad and manger can't be successful this season despite the improvement of other sides.
I'd be delighted if Pep extended his contract but that wouldn't mean it's ok to lose games now because we have your "long term plan" mentality - given the superiority of our players.
This isnt a "spoilt mentality".
As others have pointed out, the club and Pep are emphasising success now. Preparation and expectations are not the same as a divine right to win things but playing to its potential this squad should be competing strongly.

 

[The-Dogs-Pollocks]

Of course I've not forgotten that we've been successful, but the 4-5 years of damage that was caused by Pellegrini & FFP seems to have been forgotten. It will take time for us to recover & know what we need to triumph. For example, before Monday night a left back seemed to be lowest on our list of priorities, Fast forward 72 hours, it's now a priority. Why? Because our manager has seen how Everton targeted the left side of our defence because neither Danilo nor Sane are the answer.

Trust me, other cracks will appear, and it's only after Pep has applied the Polyfiller, will we begin to plug the gaps where we are weak & know which players we need to be playing where and in what system to make us most effective. He just needs time.



Pep's been here 12 months and took over a shambles of a team. Give him a chance mate. Also, it's quite evident Pep's idea of a quality young player & ours before he came are two different things. How many of the youth team players that he's jettisoned have been sought after by clubs on our level or better? Name me one.

By the sound of things, Pep is planning to extend his stay. He's continuously talked about City being 10 years behind the like of ManUre in terms of structure and culture. He's already said an extension of his stay will be down to the management & I'd be in favour of him staying to bring that stability & continuity to our club.

All you have to do is look in Pep's face to see he's hurting and desperate to get things right. THAT is the attitude I want to see from our leader. He's also a man with a plan. Most fans agreed on Monday night that after the first two games, we needed Mendy back & cover for him too, as the alternatives of Danilo & Sane aren't up to scratch. Hey presto, 2-3 days later, we're apparently in for a promising young left back to plug a gaping gap.

That is progressive thinking, HOWEVER Pep needs to be given the opportunity to coach his players and mould the team into the effective unit he wants. How's that gonna happen after 12 months with practically half a new squad? He needs & deserves time & we should afford him as such.


We have been outspending most over the last 2 summer windows, but forgive my memory, but weren't we subject to UEFA sanctions of a maximum spend of £49m for 3 seasons? With UEFA/G14 breathing down our necks and an over-the-hill squad to replace, do you think we should gel straight away and it should guarantee us winning something this season? Don't you think Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, ManUre Chelsea, Everton, PSG, Juve, Roma, Bayern, Barca, & Real will have something to say about that?

If the PL & CL and all domestic cups only included City, then yes, I'd be pissed off if we didn't win the lot especially as we were the only team playing, but we're not. As our first 2 matches of the season have proved so far, we have more acquisitions & fine tuning needed & even then, as we progress, I expect our competitors will do the same. Pep just needs to complete the process of getting the players he needs, & he needs time to bed them in and fine tune our system to suit.

To expect to do all of this within 12 months against the level of top class opposition we'll be facing week in, week out is wholly unrealistic imo. If he manages it, then great, but if he doesn't, I for one won't be calling for his head because I can clearly see he is a man with a plan, he just needs time to implement it & then I believe it will be fair to judge him.

If others see it differently, then that's cool, but it won't be the first time I've spotted something and had to repeat my POV over & over again against a welter of opposing views. It's all good though, as that's what a forum's for as long as the banter remains respectful. :-)

Sane and Danillo have been bought by Pep, to say they are not up to scratch just seems odd. Sane isnt a left wing back, we can probably both agree on that.

 

[Dribble]

Sane and Danillo have been bought by Pep, to say they are not up to scratch just seems odd. Sane isnt a left wing back, we can probably both agree on that.

When I say both are not up to scratch, I'm referring purely in terms as left wing backs. Danilo looks a very capable right back & Sane as we know is an exceptionally capable left winger. This is why we need Mendy back and another left wing back as cover/competition for him and it looks like Pep agrees judging by the fact we now seem to be in for former Spain under-19 left-back Aarón Martín from Espanyol.

 

[Dribble]

I do see it differently.
This squad is ready now and the last couple of years we under performed. I agree there were deficiencies, however the squads were strong enough to have competed better than they did.
I know you're trying to take pressure off Pep, but there is no reason this squad and manger can't be successful this season despite the improvement of other sides.
I'd be delighted if Pep extended his contract but that wouldn't mean it's ok to lose games now because we have your "long term plan" mentality - given the superiority of our players.
This isnt a "spoilt mentality".
As others have pointed out, the club and Pep are emphasising success now. Preparation and expectations are not the same as a divine right to win things but playing to its potential this squad should be competing strongly.

I broadly agree, but consider this. If our squad wasn't fit for purpose and this was acknowledged by the powers that be, could you ever imagine them coming out and saying we're not bothered about winning because we know we're deficient? YES we had/have a decent squad, but the fact we've chopped & replaced half of them and it seems the chopping hasn't finished by a long chalk, this should tell us what the thoughts about the squad really were.

Of course I want to win every game, and even though Monday night severely pissed me off, I could see that we're on the right track, but need further additions and fine tuning. However, this doesn't mean that we can't still have success this season. But let's just say it takes until January/February for all the new players to bed in, for us to find a system/systems that suit the personnel we have, but by this time, we're behind in the title race, out of the 2 domestic cups & out of the CL, but we're rapidly improving, but it didn't come early enough to count for anything this season, what then?

OK, let's say by February all is well on planet Etihad and we're looking good for season 2018/19, are you saying we should chop Pep because he didn't turn our season around quick enough? In my view, I want to win every match we play, but if our true potential & form kick in too late this season, I won't see it as a disaster as long as we're ready and set for the next season where I will begin to judge. THIS is where the 'in the long termers' differ and if you step back & look at it, our positions aren't a million miles apart.

I've been having it with a Rag this morning crowing about the 'Treble' they did last season & their recent FA Cup successes. I shot him down when I explained that this was achieved in the backdrop of City being nobbled by FFP. Essentially FFP was like The International Association of Athletics Federations telling Usain Bolt that he had to carry an egg balanced on a spoon to make his races fairer, or telling Floyd Mayweather that he could only box using his weaker hand so his opponents stood a fair chance.

Question: Why is a process to stop debt in football called 'Fair Play'? Why not call it Financial Responsibility Rules? We all know FFP was about stopping City and had little to do with club debt. BUT, some of us don't seem to realise, the real damage caused to us by FFP. It damaged our squad and Pellegrini made us regress even further. It was against all of this that Pep rolled into town 13 months ago. He's had a season to see what's what and has made huge changes to correct all that was wrong. Don't you think he deserves at the very least another 12 months to bed his new players in and to make his plan work?

If we win things this season, then great, but if not, we should console ourselves with the size of the task facing Pep, and that it's not out of the realms of possibility it could take Pep a season to pull it all together before it begins to bring home regular trophies.

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

I broadly agree, but consider this. If our squad wasn't fit for purpose and this was acknowledged by the powers that be, could you ever imagine them coming out and saying we're not bothered about winning because we know we're deficient? YES we had/have a decent squad, but the fact we've chopped & replaced half of them and it seems the chopping hasn't finished by a long chalk, this should tell us what the thoughts about the squad really were.

Of course I want to win every game, and even though Monday night severely pissed me off, I could see that we're on the right track, but need further additions and fine tuning. However, this doesn't mean that we can't still have success this season. But let's just say it takes until January/February for all the new players to bed in, for us to find a system/systems that suit the personnel we have, but by this time, we're behind in the title race, out of the 2 domestic cups & out of the CL, but we're rapidly improving, but it didn't come early enough to count for anything this season, what then?

OK, let's say by February all is well on planet Etihad and we're looking good for season 2018/19, are you saying we should chop Pep because he didn't turn our season around quick enough? In my view, I want to win every match we play, but if our true potential & form kick in too late this season, I won't see it as a disaster as long as we're ready and set for the next season where I will begin to judge. THIS is where the 'in the long termers' differ and if you step back & look at it, our positions aren't a million miles apart.

I've been having it with a Rag this morning crowing about the 'Treble' they did last season & their recent FA Cup successes. I shot him down when I explained that this was achieved in the backdrop of City being nobbled by FFP. Essentially FFP was like The International Association of Athletics Federations telling Usain Bolt that he had to carry an egg balanced on a spoon to make his races fairer, or telling Floyd Mayweather that he could only box using his weaker hand so his opponents stood a fair chance.

Question: Why is a process to stop debt in football called 'Fair Play'? Why not call it Financial Responsibility Rules? We all know FFP was about stopping City and had little to do with club debt. BUT, some of us don't seem to realise, the real damage caused to us by FFP. It damaged our squad and Pellegrini made us regress even further. It was against all of this that Pep rolled into town 13 months ago. He's had a season to see what's what and has made huge changes to correct all that was wrong. Don't you think he deserves at the very least another 12 months to bed his new players in and to make his plan work?

If we win things this season, then great, but if not, we should console ourselves with the size of the task facing Pep, and that it's not out of the realms of possibility it could take Pep a season to pull it all together before it begins to bring home regular trophies.

Agree with much of this - Pep is a proven winner and he's already done huge things for our club.

For once, our signings align with manager expectations and player defiance of our manager has come to an abrupt halt.

We're clearly much better now.

Our first season under Pep - didn't allow Pep to fix glaring weaknesses at fullback, center back and goalie (Hart didn't want to/couldn't play the way Pep wanted).

Unfortunately we signed a previously excellent Bravo at Keeper who then proceeded to unpredictably self-destruct in his first year for us. Disaster. That derailed much of the progress we would have otherwise made in Pep's first year.

This year, most weaknesses have been addressed. But we're still profligate in front of goal - and our team lacks a dribbler who can break down defenses all on his own (Sterling is our closest player in this regard but he's far from world class at this ability).

So whatever happens this year - keep Pep. And follow Pep's advice for signings in the following windows. Some of football is luck - if we don't win the league this year, I think it will be down to bad luck.

As far as winning the CL title - RM are so far ahead of everyone else in world football that winning the CL is very unlikely - even if RM were to bow out, several other sides are at least as good as we are (Bayern, PSG, Barca).

 

[come-on-barney]

Very admirable but winning things IS creating legacy.
Yes in the long term I'm sure we will create the legacy you write of, but just look at our squad, look who our manager is. There is no reason why we shouldn't be successful now.
Khaldoon himself said it - he wants success; no texts congratating him on third place.
I thought we showed on Monday that we are ready now. Too many "in the long term" posts appearing, a bit arsenal in nature, but I'm assuming the club want and expect success now and also in the future.

Had a chance of a legacy after the first title but never built on it.

 

[Dribble]

Agree with much of this - Pep is a proven winner and he's already done huge things for our club.

For once, our signings align with manager expectations and player defiance of our manager has come to an abrupt halt.

We're clearly much better now.

Our first season under Pep - didn't allow Pep to fix glaring weaknesses at fullback, center back and goalie (Hart didn't want to/couldn't play the way Pep wanted).

Unfortunately we signed a previously excellent Bravo at Keeper who then proceeded to unpredictably self-destruct in his first year for us. Disaster. That derailed much of the progress we would have otherwise made in Pep's first year.

This year, most weaknesses have been addressed. But we're still profligate in front of goal - and our team lacks a dribbler who can break down defenses all on his own (Sterling is our closest player in this regard but he's far from world class at this ability).

So whatever happens this year - keep Pep. And follow Pep's advice for signings in the following windows. Some of football is luck - if we don't win the league this year, I think it will be down to bad luck.

As far as winning the CL title - RM are so far ahead of everyone else in world football that winning the CL is very unlikely - even if RM were to bow out, several other sides are at least as good as we are (Bayern, PSG, Barca).

I totally agree with your sentiments. The first 2 matches of this season showed we are far from the finished article and that we still have a long way to go. I still believe we have the quality to win something this season, but I won't be marching on the Etihad with a burning torch if we don't. Thankfully very few people are seriously calling for Pep's head on a platter if we don't win anything.

Question to the Pep Out Campaigners: If not Pep, then who?

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

I totally agree with your sentiments. The first 2 matches of this season showed we are far from the finished article and that we still have a long way to go. I still believe we have the quality to win something this season, but I won't be marching on the Etihad with a burning torch if we don't. Thankfully very few people are seriously calling for Pep's head on a platter if we don't win anything.

Question to the Pep Out Campaigners: If not Pep, then who?

+1
And moreover, do you like exciting attacking football - or do you want a conservative side, only going forward is absolutely safe?

Me? I want to see our side score goals. I want to see us dominate possession and keep the other side from scoring because they never have the ball.

Pep is absolutely the best manager win world football for the way I want to see our side play.

 

[The blue phantom]

+1
And moreover, do you like exciting attacking football - or do you want a conservative side, only going forward is absolutely safe?

Me? I want to see our side score goals. I want to see us dominate possession and keep the other side from scoring because they never have the ball.

Pep is absolutely the best manager win world football for the way I want to see our side play.

True. But if it doesn't result in trophies I'm sure Khaldoun & the Sheikh will be a tad pissed off. As most fans will be too.

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

True. But if it doesn't result in trophies I'm sure Khaldoun & the Sheikh will be a tad pissed off. As most fans will be too.

Yup - at the same time though he'll still be backed - for at least 2 years should he stay and should we unexpectedly remain trophy-less - our entire management hierarchy is designed to please Pep and it's clear that ownership backs Pep all the way. For me, it'll take 2+ years of no trophies with indication that Pep is at fault as opposed to bad luck for Pep to go.

And at that point, everything would change - management,players... everything.

 

[The blue phantom]

Yup - at the same time though he'll still be backed - for at least 2 years should he stay and should we unexpectedly remain trophy-less - our entire management hierarchy is designed to please Pep and it's clear that ownership backs Pep all the way. For me, it'll take 2+ years of no trophies with indication that Pep is at fault as opposed to bad luck for Pep to go.

And at that point, everything would change - management,players... everything.

I love the way we play. But if the unthinkable happens and it just doesnt work. The style of play brings no rewards for a few years. I wonder what the main men would do?

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

I love the way we play. But if the unthinkable happens and it just doesnt work. The style of play brings no rewards for a few years. I wonder what the main men would do?

Stick with it, I think, unless Pep's obviously lost course; we're far too invested in Pep to chance tack in the foreseeable future.