General Election - 4th July 2024

[oldius]

I think the reason we are so far adrift from it, is that whilst what you describe might be the objective for the majority of the population, there is a much smaller percentage for whom accumulation of vast wealth at the expense of others is their main objective. This has probably always been the case; but for decades we have allowed policies and created a culture where this greed and favouring of capital has rolled back the progress we made in the 20th century in creating a more equitable society. Worse than this we've encouraged a culture were those a bit further down the ladder from the super wealthy are also able to exploit their fellow citizens without being viewed as social pariahs.

The groundwork was laid for this in the 1980s and we're now reaping as we sowed. Unless something catastrophic happens to wake us up or people consciously decide that they don't want to live in an increasingly inequitable society I fear little will change. Electoral reform might help a bit but ultimately we need to recognise what type of society we are allowing to be created in our name.

I am absolutely with you.
Society has to be run for the benefit of the majority.

 

[bluethrunthru]

 

[Vic]

My mate's a retired electrician * but still gets an occasional chance to fill in tutoring. OK, he says, unless it's a group who don't really want to be there. You can lead a truculent 18-year-old to a course but you can't make them learn.

* Last job he was known as Jurassic Sparks.

 

[metalblue]

My mate's a retired electrician * but still gets an occasional chance to fill in tutoring. OK, he says, unless it's a group who don't really want to be there. You can lead a truculent 18-year-old to a course but you can't make them learn.

* Last job he was known as Jurassic Sparks.

Watt’s that got to do with this current thread?

 

[BrianW]

Watt’s that got to do with this current thread?

He's trying to transform it but is obviously meeting resistance.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was 18 so I went to university and came out with a ton of debt and no job and then I started from the bottom, it was 4 years of my life wasted. The current system doesn't work and it still won't work even if fees are free because the fact is the country does not need more people with university degrees.

Older people had free or cheaper university fees but that misses the point that is less older people went to university at all, many of them were working at 16. Somebody who started work at 16 will have 5+ years of experience and earnings in the bag versus a university leaver.

How many young people are in full time work today at 16? It's basically zero. Young people nowadays are only starting work in their early to mid-20's, is it any surprise that they can't afford houses? How can you save for a house when you are 21, getting pissed every night, lying in bed and attending a handful of lectures per week whilst you pay for it all with money you haven't got?

The university system is the greatest marketing scam of the last 50 years. It has made parents think that without a degree their kids can't be successful and a degree is critical to get the top jobs, it's not true. The biggest companies are begging for kids with experience, skills and a good attitude, they do not care about degrees because they'll pay for them to do degrees if it's really needed.

National service is perhaps a bad idea but only because of the military aspect. The idea of getting kids out there to gain experience, skills and do something fulfilling is an extremely good idea.

Nobody can be in full time work in England at 16.
It is compulsory to be in full time education or training to 18

I find your utilitarian view of the value higher education totally depressing.
All three of my kids went to top unis , had their horizons expanded, met echelons of society they otherwise would never have met and hold top professional jobs.

I think your problem with it lies in you, not the system.

 

[hcblue95]

Which part of it is false?

Starting life at 21 with £30k+ of debt, no job and no tangible skills isn't ideal but that is exactly what the university sector sells to people.

I was sold it and I regret it completely, it was 4 years of my time wasted where I could of got a job and worked my way up in something. My degree has made no difference whatsoever and the irony is the company I work for offers to pay for degrees anyway which means I would of been £30k better off as well.

The part where you generalised all young people based on your anecdotal experience of not having a good time at university.

 

[BrianW]

There are lots of jobs now that need a degree whereas it did not use to be necessary. Nursing and teaching, to name but two. If it comes to that, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, arguably one of the greatest engineers in history, did not have a degree.

A degree course ain't for everyone. I took mine as a mature student (part-time) and wished I'd done it earlier. Another question is whether it needs to be stretched out over three years.

My views on the education system are unconventional, to say the least. I think a lot of it is nothing more than bourgeois bollocks. But education, as such, is greatly undervalued in this country. We need more of it, not less, because all too many citizens are close-minded, narrow-minded or just plain pig-ignorant. How you deliver it effectively is the $64,000 question. Certainly not by Gove-style gradgrindism, or by letting religious nutters get involved in running it.

 

[Don Karleone]

 

[Shuffs]

Was Sunak watching KDB on Sat??