General Election - December 12th, 2019

[M18CTID]

We're not having that, you adore the bloke. My hatred of him stems from what he says, does and stands for. Do you think I hate him just because of his suits?

Your so blinkered, you've even tried to pretend he's not a Leave supporter. Something which I can see must cause you enormous internal torment given the passionate Remain stance you have personally.

But look at the record of the great man when it comes to the EU:

• He voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
• He opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993.
• He voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
• In 2010, he voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
• He voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
• In 2011 he also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
• He opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
• His brother Piers Corbyn has said that Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
• He went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch.

Now, here's a challenge for you: Faced with the above, why don't you just say "OK, fair enough, it does look like he's probably a Leave supporter".

Do you have it in you?

Over to you fumble ;)

 

[M18CTID]

With my sensible head on, I would say both sides have been guilty of real Politik, I cant really blame them for that, but Farage will be picking the bones of it. I have been consistent in this, in that I do believe both the ERG and the FBFE crowd are equally culpable for the impasse. They have backed their respective nominal parties into positions they would rather not be in. To classical textbook Marxism approach, you can also add Johnson's anti democratic authoritarian approach to Parliament. To the momentum demonstrations you can add those of the DFLA and the EDL as being disruptive, violent and tension creating. Its certainly not a one sided episode, it is a widening of the spectrum so that those groups that would normally be outside the acceptable are now becoming the acceptable.

This re-alignment of parties and disintegration of established political norms has but one winner in the end, that is the **** that is Farage.

Farage is a one-trick pony and the only reason why he has any degree of relevance at this moment in time is because Brexit has so far not been delivered. If/when it is, he'll probably go back to being a non-entity

 

[The perfect fumble]

We're not having that, you adore the bloke. My hatred of him stems from what he says, does and stands for. Do you think I hate him just because of his suits?

Your so blinkered, you've even tried to pretend he's not a Leave supporter. Something which I can see must cause you enormous internal torment given the passionate Remain stance you have personally.

But look at the record of the great man when it comes to the EU:

• He voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
• He opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993.
• He voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
• In 2010, he voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
• He voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
• In 2011 he also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
• He opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
• His brother Piers Corbyn has said that Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
• He went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch.

Now, here's a challenge for you: Faced with the above, why don't you just say "OK, fair enough, it does look like he's probably a Leave supporter".

Do you have it in you?

Mind boggling!

OK, he supports leave. I've no doubt he supports some idea of Lexit, so he can create the new Jerusalem, but that's not the point, an opportunist wouldn't care! Boris didn't.

That was your original point, remember.

If Corbyn was so committed to Brexit/Lexit then why not stand by and let us crash out? Let the Tories take the flak and then he can create a Socialist Nirvana from the ashes?

You see his actions don't fit neatly in to your opportunist hypothesis, and you can bang that square peg in to a round hole all you like, you convince no one.

 

[M18CTID]

Mind boggling!

OK, he supports leave. I've no doubt he supports some idea of Lexit, so he can create the new Jerusalem, but that's not the point, an opportunist wouldn't care! Boris didn't.

That was your original point, remember.

If Corbyn was so committed to Brexit/Lexit then why not stand by and let us crash out? Let the Tories take the flak and then he can create a Socialist Nirvana from the ashes?

You see his actions don't fit neatly in to your opportunist hypothesis, and you can bang that square peg in to a round hole all you like, you convince no one.

I think his point - and I could be wrong - is that he isn't quite the man of principle he claims to be because if he was, he'd have adopted a Leave stance during the referendum campaign.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Mind boggling!

OK, he supports leave. I've no doubt he supports some idea of Lexit, so he can create the new Jerusalem, but that's not the point, an opportunist wouldn't care! Boris didn't.

That was your original point, remember.

If Corbyn was so committed to Brexit/Lexit then why not stand by and let us crash out? Let the Tories take the flak and then he can create a Socialist Nirvana from the ashes?

You see his actions don't fit neatly in to your opportunist hypothesis, and you can bang that square peg in to a round hole all you like, you convince no one.

Result. Thank-you. So you can stop this nonsense about pretending he's a Remainer.

As to why he's now supporting a Remain position? Well if he had any principles, obviously he woudn't be, would he. It's bloody cynical opportunism again. "How can I inflict as much damage on Boris as possible, irrespective of my own political views".

That he is an unprincipled twat is in itself not so annoying. What is, is the ludicrous notion that he's a man of principle, standing up for what he believes in. Like he did in the last GE, confirming his opposition

 

[George Hannah]

Farage is a one-trick pony and the only reason why he has any degree of relevance at this moment in time is because Brexit has so far not been delivered. If/when it is, he'll probably go back to being a non-entity

Meanwhile by denying an early election the Labour Party are busy helping him to form an alliance his ERG friends - turning the Tories into a hard right populist party and plunging the country into the turmoil of a polarized battleground of extremists.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I think his point - and I could be wrong - is that he isn't quite the man of principle he claims to be because if he was, he'd have adopted a Leave stance during the referendum campaign.

He is a leader of a remain party, he said at the time he gave the EU a seven out of ten, It's easier being a principled back bencher than it is to be a leader of a party, with different viewpoints clamouring for prominence. Criticise Corbyn all you like, but leaders have to strike a balance between competing interests, otherwise you end up like Johnson.

The Labour party is not as riven over the EU as the Tories, some don't like the loss of sovereignty, some don't like the capitalist model strait jacket, but most like the worker and consumer rights it protects, and they all like the prosperity that flows from being a member of the world's most successful trading block.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Result. Thank-you. So you can stop this nonsense about pretending he's a Remainer.

As to why he's now supporting a Remain position? Well if he had any principles, obviously he woudn't be, would he. It's bloody cynical opportunism again. "How can I inflict as much damage on Boris as possible, irrespective of my own political views".

That he is an unprincipled twat is in itself not so annoying. What is, is the ludicrous notion that he's a man of principle, standing up for what he believes in. Like he did in the last GE, confirming his opposition

Your answer...

He is a leader of a remain party, he said at the time he gave the EU a seven out of ten, It's easier being a principled back bencher than it is to be a leader of a party, with different viewpoints clamouring for prominence. Criticise Corbyn all you like, but leaders have to strike a balance between competing interests, otherwise you end up like Johnson.

The Labour party is not as riven over the EU as the Tories, some don't like the loss of sovereignty, some don't like the capitalist model strait jacket, but most like the worker and consumer rights it protects, and they all like the prosperity that flows from being a member of the world's most successful trading block.

 

[George Hannah]

That particular horse bolted on the 23rd June 2016 and it isn’t coming back anytime soon.

That was indeed the start of it, Brexit is 100% down to the Tories but we are now seeing their folly being exploited by the extremists on both sides and the country risks damage that can never be repaired. That the Labour Party Marxists are being allowed to facilitate the strengthening of Farage is simply unpardonable.

 

[The perfect fumble]

That was indeed the start of it, Brexit is 100% down to the Tories but we are now seeing their folly being exploited by the extremists on both sides and the country risks damage that can never be repaired. That the Labour Party Marxists are being allowed to in facilitate the strengthening of Farage is simply unbelievable.

You're right about one thing, it is unbelievable.