General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

We’re well beyond having any sort of negotiating leverage. The point of the EU believing we are serious negotiators ended in 2017. We’re a laughing stock, with no hand worth playing.

Labour’s vision is a fair and honest way out and something that we’ve missed for 3 years.

True - I'd go further and say the EU must have seen what the Leave.EU mob were saying in the campaign with some raised eyebrows. The campaign was a race to the bottom in terms of credibility and deliverable outcomes. BoJo and Gove etc were all talking utter BS about what could be achieved. Cake and eat it etc etc. At the time the expectations was they would lose so it wasn't really given much thought.

The reality now is that if we are to leave we must accept something that is either much softer and retain close alignment with the EU or accept we will do a very damaging hard deal that does not give us anything close to what we need or what was promised. Arguing about what your best negotiating stance is totally misses the point that neither are good and the aim is unachievable in any event. Its a massive distraction and intended to shift the blame on to the EU. The fundamentals are unchanged, we either do a soft brexit or we do something that damages the economy and wrecks the GFA. Still have to pick one even after No deal.

 

[Mike D]

The purge continues. Yet another Conservative MP announces they are standing down at the next election. In his statement, Mark Prisk notes the decline of “common sense”.

Dropping like flies at number 10

 

[Ban-jani]

True - I'd go further and say the EU must have seen what the Leave.EU mob were saying in the campaign with some raised eyebrows. The campaign was a race to the bottom in terms of credibility and deliverable outcomes. BoJo and Gove etc were all talking utter BS about what could be achieved. Cake and eat it etc etc. At the time the expectations was they would lose so it wasn't really given much thought.

The reality now is that if we are to leave we must accept something that is either much softer and retain close alignment with the EU or accept we will do a very damaging hard deal that does not give us anything close to what we need or what was promised. Arguing about what your best negotiating stance is totally miss the point that neither are good and the aim is unachievable. Its a massive distraction and intended to shift the blame on to the EU. The fundamentals are unchanged, we either do a soft brexit or we do something that damages the economy and wrecks the GFA. Still have to pick one even after No deal.

That’s a very good point.

The argument that the EU won’t negotiate us a good deal because Labour have confirmed they’ll back remain afterwards is definitely countered by the fact that the EU probably view Johnson and Gove and the rest of those further to the right with disdain after what they spouted. They’ll have less motivation to give us a favourable deal with those charlatans in charge.

 

[Mike D]

He may yet succeed in the former as he's already succeeded in the latter.

Unless he could somehow cobble together a Con/Brexit Party coalition and even then I just can't see him getting the numbers.

However there is also the timing of this next election being crucial because having an election in December is a no no or January for that matter. It would restrict door to door campaigning (which would hamper Labour) but then there is also the weather to factor in, the old white stuff setting down on election day would cause havoc with the grey votes the tories rely.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The $64,000 question is WTF will Labour do if/when Boris comes back with a deal?

Vote for it, as they clearly should be doing, or go for opportunism/political expediency/self-interest at the expense of the country and what's best for the country?

Scrub that, it's a 64p question to which we ALL know the answer.

 

[Ban-jani]

'Constructive talks' today. Great news.

All it requires, is Bozo to come up with a credible alternative to the backstop & they'll get rid of it.

So problem solved. Boris can do that today & then we can sign up to Theresa May's deal.

Oh but wait, I suppose we are just 'getting together' the solution for the Irish border & will just about have it ready for, ooh let's say, 30th Oct ? And it will be really different to the one they have already laughed at.

Just believe more mate.

Oh and good will.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The $64,000 question is WTF will Labour do if/when Boris comes back with a deal?

Vote for it, as they clearly should be doing, or go for opportunism/political expediency/self-interest at the expense of the country and what's best for the country?

Scrub that, it's a 64p question to which we ALL know the answer.

What do the ERG do ?

It will be the same deal. Labour don't agree with it, but the Nastis don't agree with it either. Do they vote it through because they have their man in No 10 now ?

 

[inbetween]

That’s a very good point.

The argument that the EU won’t negotiate us a good deal because Labour have confirmed they’ll back remain afterwards is definitely countered by the fact that the EU probably view Johnson and Gove and the rest of those further to the right with disdain after what they spouted. They’ll have less motivation to give us a favourable deal with those charlatans in charge.

The EU will NOT extend article 50 to renegotiate the deal therefore Labours option to renegotiate a deal to even vote against is a total lie.

The total stupidity of it is that the only way the EU will consider extension is on the basis of change, IE a democratic election...... Labour tonight will whip to vote against that election!

The way forwards is to restore democracy and that means you don't take no deal off the table, you let the people decide for themselves based upon party policy.

If Labour goes forward to take no deal away and potentially pigeonhole the electorate into a choice of May's deal vs remain to get a shot at power... My god they are in for a kicking.

I don't like what Boris is doing but he is doing the right thing putting it back to the people. These morons who have been calling for an election for the last 3 years are the ones standing in the way of democracy.

 

[The perfect fumble]

More bait Labour won't take.....

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

That’s a very good point.

The argument that the EU won’t negotiate us a good deal because Labour have confirmed they’ll back remain afterwards is definitely countered by the fact that the EU probably view Johnson and Gove and the rest of those further to the right with disdain after what they spouted. They’ll have less motivation to give us a favourable deal with those charlatans in charge.

They will happily offer us a deal but how we go about it is irrelevant. It can be a soft deal or a hard deal. Take your pick. No Deal is just extending the promises of Unicorns for as long as possible and blaming the EU when you crash out, at that point the same choice is still there and the same decision to be made.

The $64,000 question is WTF will Labour do if/when Boris comes back with a deal?

Vote for it, as they clearly should be doing, or go for opportunism/political expediency/self-interest at the expense of the country and what's best for the country?

Scrub that, it's a 64p question to which we ALL know the answer.

Labour will never agree to a tory brexit in the same way that the ERG would never agree that a labour deal was a good outcome. Some in both parties would agree to a soft brexit outcome but not enough from either to make it worth talking about. Soft brexit is dead with the current MPs.