General Election - December 12th, 2019

[denislawsbackheel]

If the ERG traitors had voted for May’s deal back when the Tories had a majority we would now be out if the EU.

The current impasse is entirely down to them.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Labour could of prevented no deal on three occasions and consistently voted for no deal instead. The beauty of their position is they now plan to bring back the deal they voted against up against remain!! Unbelievable.

Did they vote for 'no deal', or did they vote against May's deal? Those two are not synonymous.

 

[M18CTID]

Did they vote for 'no deal', or did they vote against May's deal? Those two are not synonymous.

I think the point is that voting against May's deal has inadvertently brought the threat of No Deal closer

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I think the point is that voting against May's deal has inadvertently brought the threat of No Deal closer

That's a reasonable viewpoint.

Saying they voted for no deal is misleading.

 

[M18CTID]

If the ERG traitors had voted for May’s deal back when the Tories had a majority we would now be out if the EU.

The current impasse is entirely down to them.

The ERG are wankers but there have been opportunities to get it through since and 3 times it was voted down

The impasse is down to all sides

 

[BobKowalski]

In a constitutional crisis where government is paralyzed, how can you possibly advocate not allowing the people to have a say because you personally won't like the result?!

Labour are not in power, they are a million miles from power. The reason we are in this mess is BECAUSE of Labour's absence in opposition for three years.

Labour could of prevented no deal on three occasions and consistently voted for no deal instead. The beauty of their position is they now plan to bring back the deal they voted against up against remain!! Unbelievable.

I hold the view that I no longer care what the result is. I just want it sorted and if the people have their say then that result is never wrong regardless of what it is.

Those opposing know what the result will be and they are essentially holding the public and the will of the public in contempt. The arrogance and elitism is just astounding.

The people are often wrong mate, we are just obliged to carry out and live with the consequences. And no one is saying the people cannot have a say. The election has been put off for a month not cancelled and do you actually think it made sense to have an election two weeks away from a potential economic meltdown?

Everyone wants it ‘sorted’. It will never be sorted. Any form of Brexit requires us to either get minced in perpetual negations with the EU or at best become a passive rule taker with no say in the decision making process. Johnson is still pretending that he will be working to secure a deal on Oct 17 when the leaders meet. Yet he will be told to leave the room when Brexit is discussed. They meet to discuss their position on Brexit. They do not negotiate Brexit with the U.K. That is the job of the man they appointed to do the work on their behalf.

The only chance we have of ‘sorting it’ is revoking A50 which brings the fight back to where it really belongs. The U.K. This is a domestic nervous breakdown dressed up as an international negotiation. All we have done in three years is soil ourselves in public. At least let us have the decency to try and resolve our issues behind closed doors.

 

[M18CTID]

That's a reasonable viewpoint.

Saying they voted for no deal is misleading.

True. Maybe some thought a better deal could've been negotiated, and that's understandable, and maybe others voted against it in the hope that Brexit would be cancelled altogether and we'd end up remaining in the EU. I don't believe too many, if any at all, deliberately sabotaged it to increase our chance of crashing out without a deal, but in hindsight that's what voting against it has done.

I still expect a deal of sorts to be negotiated but I'm not sure it can be done before the end of next month.

 

[meltonblue]

I don’t want an election as it will be purely about brexit, if that does need a public vote to resolve then I’d rather it be in a separate referendum. There’s been no focus at all really on domestic policy for three years already, that would just get drowned out again if they had one now.

I do think it’s inevitable though.

 

[Rascal]

Check out the election result, his vision of nuclear disarmament went the way it was predicted to go,
down the pan. This Labour now has a leader with identical views, but without the intelligence, and is further
to the left, but it's very much like 1979 in many respects.

There are people on here obsessed by the left, the further left, the furthest left, the far left, the Marxist left, the radical left, and the even farer left without even understanding what the left is.

Foot and Corbyn were Social democrats, they believe in democracy, so how far left is it before democracy ends? Remember Marx also believed in democracy

For Marx socialism and democracy were bound together

This flows from the most essential building block of Marxism--that socialism must be the self-emancipation of the working class.

That goal is only possible as the act of the conscious masses of the majority class in society, and that requires the fullest expansion of democracy--whether workers achieve democracy on the basis of their own actions and organization or by relying on rights established under the existing system.

The defenders of the capitalist system need the opposite. They need to straitjacket and contain mass involvement, whether within the political system or in struggles and movements outside it. So they seek to undermine or diminish or even abolish democracy. (See Johnson)

For Marx, this conflict--between the expansion of democracy and the limitation of it--was an essential part of the class struggle.

This is because the state, isn't neutral. Under a capitalist system, it's on the side of the capitalists . Therefore the whole Brexit debacle has been from start to finish about the interests of the capitalists and not about the interests of the people.

But hey ho. Fish.

 

[Chippy_boy]

ha ha ha ha

Indeed :-)

Bookmarked