General Election June 8th

[Len Rum]

I do not understand how so many people cannot get their heads around that by saying we will not leave without a deal - like Labour do - then you immediately give all the power to the EU team and effectively guarantee the worst deal is all that will be on offer - meaning that we essentially do not leave.

Anyway - that is something for the Brexit thread

First paragraph wrong.
Second paragraph correct.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Less of the 'anodyne' mate.

I meant anodyne in the sense of being bland, rather than inoffensive.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The standard of politician, compared to a generation ago, on all sides, is truly shocking. I put this principally down to the proliferation of career politicians in the last generation or so.

I agree with this point. Faceless, characterless party yesmen with fewer and fewer who actually have experienced things (IMO, the House of Lords becomes more important as a learned check as a result).

 

[Len Rum]

But they're not though. You and everybody else have fell into the logical trap that politics places on people.

Labour are not going to "wreck the economy".

The Tories aren't going to "starve the poor".

This is PR nonsense that has no bearing on reality. It presumes that neither party has any rational actors in it and instead are a caricature of themselves. A vastly over simplified description able to be shortened into a useful soundbite.

I voted Labour because I believe in more of Labour policies than Tory and as a member, I want us to have a strong opposition for the next leader.

But if the Tories get in then that's fine. They are a bunch of generally rational people who want to do what they think is best for the country. We're not going to be back to the days of workhouse and Oliver Twist.

The point is that these are stereotypes about political parties reinforced by the gutter press and they never come true. Labour never sinks the economy. The Tories never kill off the poor. It's a complete myth akin to transfer hype where a new player is never as good or bad as people expected.

These stereotypes are part of the irrationality of politics and they're both unhelpful and really quite irritating. The end is never nigh. People lie to you in order to create emotion and make you do what they want.

Oh,so the Tories are not going to 'take us back to the workhouse' or 'starve the poor' ( well not intentionally)?
That's comforting to know but they are set on a course for a hard Brexit which economically will ( unintentionally of course) go some way towards achieving those outcomes.

 

[SWP's back]

Er...four thousand deaths of people having their benefits stopped after being declared fit to work is what could be described as a "kill off" don't you think?

How many poorly people have died that didn't have their benefits taken off them?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

For me it should be first and foremost about Brexit

That because your party has fucked up just about everything else so should be booted out if the election was about the earth onomy, the NHS, security, social care, education, etc.

 

[bluetom]

I want a strong economy and no more borrowing en masse. So Tory for me thank you very much.

Fair enough, if thats most important to you and you think thats what tories will do.

I would probably believe that in 2010 but weve had a conservative "strong economy" for 7 years, doesnt really mean much if most people dont see any of it. Looking around it doesnt feel like a strong economy or a positive future to me.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Imagine Jezza Corbyn campaigning in 5 years time with his walking stick.. that leaves me even colder !

What about David Milband?

And if Teresa does go too, what do you think of Priti Patel? I like her.. she would be a dark horse to replace May (boris the favourite) but do think the Tories need a proper Brexiteer as Leader to negotiate.. it's EXACTLY why David Cameron resigned as he felt as a Remainer he couldn't lead the process.. yet for some reason May can!?

Would love the right brother to get his shot, but assuming comrade corbyn does exit stage left post defeat (assuming that is whats gonna happen) then his sucessor would need picking from the carcass of the party he leaves behind so DM would need a seat and fast. As for May, she knocks me sick, she is the epitome of the opportunistic self interested career politician. you could see she was a brexiter (which is ok, it wasnt my choice but it was a fair vote) yet she sided with Remain just to curry favour with the leadership at the time and to hang on to her post if remain won. She should at least have had the same principles as Cameron and left a brexiter a clear run on the leadership. Never thought I'd say this but you can only really have respect for call me Dave for the very reason you mention. Gideon can go fuck himself though.

 

[SWP's back]

That because your party has fucked up just about everything else so should be booted out if the election was about the earth onomy, the NHS, security, social care, education, etc.

Social care? What the propose is far less damaging than it is now for most people.

And the economy is in good shape, as well you know.

You really think security would be better under the leadership of a man that voted against anti-terror bill for the last 30 years?

 

[Blue Mooner]

This largely sums up the choice in the election today. For most people, in terms of their day to day existence, it won't really matter who gets in on Friday so it boils down to a fairly clear choice - do we care enough about the people at the bottom, the people who will be hardest hit by another 5 years of austerity.

For me Labour are the only party with any coherent policy on how we provide care for those that are most in need so for that reason alone I would urge people to vote wisely and not give the Tories a clear mandate to carry on punishing the people in our society who can least defend themselves.

But your totally missing the point, no one, not least the poorest will be better off in an economy that has tanked and run out of money because of profligate spending. It might 'feel' better for a few years whilst the 'borrowed' money gets pumped in but when it runs out, as it always does with Labour, it's yet again left to the 'nasty' tories to pick up the mess and make the difficult decisions and sadly that means people's lives being affected adversely. That's the real world not Labour's fantasy one.

If inflation gets out of hand because of profligate spending, above inflation salary rises ,then interest rates will have to rise and that will put millions of mortgaged families at risk of unaffordable payments and more burden on public finances that we can ill afford.

Families can't spend beyond their means without going bust, businesses can't spend beyond their means without going bust, and neither can countries. You have to balance the budgets.

Does that mean I think the Tories get everything right, of course not, but they are a damn sight more realistic and responsible then Labour will ever be.