I agree, it is about compromises and I would not be in favour of the tax rises on the poorest.It's a question of compromises Len. Something you seem to have difficulty grasping.
If in order to better fund our public services, it was necessary to reduce the personal allowance by several thousand and increase the basic rate of tax by a few points, such that the very poorest in society had to pay even more, would you be in favour? I very much doubt it.
I would know because I know roughly what stuff costs and because, well, £80,000 is a lot of money.
No, I wouldn't suggest taking more and more off them until they are uncomfortable. That wasn't my point. The point was that it is (in my view) unreasonable to complain about them paying a lot more tax than someone on a very low wage.
The argument that bothers me is the one that implies that high earners work harder than low earners and therefore should not pay a high rate of tax, i.e. tax rates penalise hard workers. But the reality is that many low earners work incredibly hard and often very long hours.
I agree, it is about compromises and I would not be in favour of the tax rises on the poorest.
We have a crisis in funding in our public services now which is why Jezz is proposing businesses and the top 5% of earners fund the shortfall.
Seems fair to me.
I would know because I know roughly what stuff costs and because, well, £80,000 is a lot of money.
I'm not in the 80k plus bracket mate and I don't pay corporation tax, so as part of team UK the burden of funding to prevent the immediate crisis in our public services doesn't require extra taxation on the likes of myself and others who have been hit by Tory austerity.Hey Len, if you are for paying more tax that's great, feel free to send a cheque for many thousands to Hmrc . They won't return it you know. They will cash it and it will make you feel better contributing more to society .
Same with all others who think tax rates are too low. I expect Jezza pays the minimum amount of tax on his salary. If he thinks it should be higher then Jezza by all means pay it over, no arguments from Hmrc or any of us....
As someone who works 60 hours a week and earns well to pay a decent slug of tax and have a decent amount in my pocket may be I should not bother if you are going to take more money off me. Don't thank me for working hard paying half my wage, employing lots of people who also pay tax , if u are going to keep taking more, do you know what I will work less hard make some people redundant and work out how to play the system so I get out of society rather than put in. Seems to be popular on here.
Seriously again, why do my socialist ideals get stronger when capitalists argue their case?
Like everybody else mate they might have to cut their cloth to suit.I thought I would address this separately.
£80,000 is about £4,500 per month net. Someone on £80,000 perhaps live in a £500,000 house and has a £250,000 mortgage. Then they need to save for a pension and pay for a couple of cars. And say they have two or three kids. Perhaps one or more are at a private school. So, every month,
£1,000 for one child in private education
£1,200 on the mortgage
£500 on the pension
£500 in the car loan
£1,000 for food, household, clothes etc
£200 on the rates
£120 on gas & electric
£80 Sky
£100 phone contracts x 4 people
£300 towards your annual family holiday.
That's £5,000 a month, i.e. your whole income gone, in fact they are going £500 more overdrawn every month. If you have 2 kids at private school, your knackered. And £500 on your pension is not enough. My point is, people on £80,000 are not "rich". They aren't sitting on their arses with pots of money lying around. Money is tight for people on all sorts of income brackets.
EDIT: Pure guesswork above of course. I haven't included house insurance or pet insurance or the new kitchen or the new carpet or the boiler broke or the kids' school trip etc etc etc
I thought I would address this separately.
£80,000 is about £4,500 per month net. Someone on £80,000 perhaps live in a £500,000 house and has a £250,000 mortgage. Then they need to save for a pension and pay for a couple of cars. And say they have two or three kids. Perhaps one or more are at a private school. So, every month,
£1,000 for one child in private education
£1,200 on the mortgage
£500 on the pension
£500 in the car loan
£1,000 for food, household, clothes etc
£200 on the rates
£120 on gas & electric
£80 Sky
£100 phone contracts x 4 people
£300 towards your annual family holiday.
That's £5,000 a month, i.e. your whole income gone, in fact they are going £500 more overdrawn every month. If you have 2 kids at private school, your knackered. And £500 on your pension is not enough. My point is, people on £80,000 are not "rich". They aren't sitting on their arses with pots of money lying around. Money is tight for people on all sorts of income brackets.
EDIT: Pure guesswork above of course. I haven't included house insurance or pet insurance or the new kitchen or the new carpet or the boiler broke or the kids' school trip etc etc etc
It's a tough world for those who aren't rich. Is this who May means by the just-about-managing?
That's absolute bollocks.Twelve times is not enough. They are comfortable enough to pay more.
They have money now.Our public services need money NOW
It's a tough world for those who aren't rich. Is this who May means by the just-about-managing?
Actually now I've had the laugh, you really have no idea what a bust boiler means to someone on low pay.
Had you down as a few things mate, but not ( until now) Mr Pedantic.They have money now.
Had you down as a few things mate, but not ( until now) Mr Pedantic.
Still you live and learn.
The only people desperate for more tax are those that wouldn't pay it. And yet they call those that would 'selfish', it's quite ironic.Hey Len, if you are for paying more tax that's great, feel free to send a cheque for many thousands to Hmrc . They won't return it you know. They will cash it and it will make you feel better contributing more to society .
Same with all others who think tax rates are too low. I expect Jezza pays the minimum amount of tax on his salary. If he thinks it should be higher then Jezza by all means pay it over, no arguments from Hmrc or any of us....
Spot on
- Just been sent this. Brilliantly put!
Back
- I can't take credit for this.... but I honestly couldn't have put it better myself -
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand...
All I've ever heard from people, for years, is
"bloody bankers and their bonuses"
"bloody rich and their offshore tax havens "
"bloody politicians with their lying and second homes"
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
"bloody Establishment, they're all in it together”
“it'll never change, there's no point in voting”
And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.
But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich.
The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.
So The media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with…
“she's strong and stable”
“he's a clown”
“he's not a leader”
“look he can't even control his own party”
“he'll ruin the economy”
“how's he gonna pay for it all?!”
“AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”
And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them.
We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying
“he's a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she's strong and stable”
“he'll take us back to the 70s”
And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen.
And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together.
You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?
And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.
Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us.
He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.
His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up.
And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone.
The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.
Good... it's long overdue."
Ha, I don't find it frightening since he's got no chance. Just found the thought of him as PM funny - it'd be a fcking shambles.Frightening, but more frighteningly would he be any worse than the new bluekipper May?
Then I do admire your concern for those better off than you.You really have no idea on my background or income level. FWIW, my income is zero since I have been unemployed for over a year, so please don't presume what a bust boiler might mean to me. I know exactly how I felt when the fridge and the washing machine both managed to break on the same day last year (you could not make it up, could you.)
How much less hard did you work when the higher rate tax was higher? It's the new politics of envy. You're envying the poor. Why do I find it hard to believe you employ people for the good of society or just out of the goodness of your heart?
I am serious: what are you doing that, if you have up some of your market share, couldn't be done by a competitor or a new entrepreneur in this fabulous capitalist world.
Or perhaps (less seriously) your business could be nationalised.
Seriously again, why do my socialist ideals get stronger when capitalists argue their case?