good debate - gone off track

[M18CTID]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Correct. And I wouldn't mind betting that out of all those that have condemned the airing of these chants on this thread, there are at least a few that have been guilty of them at some point in the past. There was a time when "Who's that lying on the runway?" was sung by a far greater number of people than it is these days. Not all those people have stopped going to games or disappeared into thin air.

Perhaps those people have grown up and realised that mocking death isn't actually something to feel proud of?

Correct. Of which I'm one. But because I've done it in the past, it would be utterly hypocritical of me to pontificate to those that still do it. I'm not in the least bit happy that it still goes on and my heart sank when I was at The Swamp on Sunday and heard it get an airing but I can only be responsible for my own actions.

If someone can genuinely turn round and say that they have not once come out with anything remotely controversial at a football match, whether it be mocking one disaster or another, or something that ridicules a particular player or manager or set of fans in a derogatory way, then fair play - you can take the moral high ground.

There are degrees of acceptability, taking the piss out of O'Shea for being gay isn't as bad as mocking M*nich, mainly because O'Shea ISN'T gay and it's done in jest.

Perhaps you can tell us all what is acceptable and what is not - mocking O'Shea isn't as bad as mocking M*nich but try telling that to the gay community - they will probably have an entirely different opinion than you or me. As it happens, I joined in with the O'Shea chants but not any of the M*nich ones.

....after all, plenty of you are probably guilty of receiving and passing on text messages that take the piss out of the latest celebrity that has died.

There's a difference there though isn't there. If I forward on a text joke about, for example, Jade Goody's death there's no chance it's going to upset her family or others with a direct association with her death. If I stand up at the football and chant about M*nich then the media, United fans and anyone with a TV/radio is going to have the opportunity to hear it

Right, so a text about Jade Goody's death is okay because her family won't know you sent it. But I bet they're well aware that there are plenty of those texts in circulation mocking her death - just because it might not be traceable back to you doesn't make it any more acceptable.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Some of you need to calm down and get off your high horses here.

It's football. Football is not politically correct.

A few City fans sing the Munich songs. A few United fans sing about Hillsbrough. A few Scousers sing about Harold shipman. A few Spurs fans sing about Sol hanging from a tree.

They're all wrong and it may even die out in time,like a lot of the racism has.

Football is irreverant and attracts working class men, often charged up on beer and adrenaline. It's going to happen. They don't do it because they are genuinely happy people died, they do it as a windup and for a laugh - they do it becuase it's irreverant. All this hot air on here is not going to change anything. Your wasting your time.

And the truth is, lots, I mean LOTS of City fans refer to United as the Munichs. Certainly more than call them the Rags. I don't buy this smokescreen that it is because United milk Munich. It isn't.

I'm not saying it's right at all.I don't think it is. But let's just get it in perspective. No United fan is genuinely offended by these songs. The only ones who would be are the survivors of the dead. And when they were present, at last years derby, City fans did the decent thing.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

I've not posted for ages and don't know why I feel compelled to post on this one? My opinion for what it's worth:

I feel that if you sat any City fan down on a one to one basis, that fan would likely agree what a God awful tragedy it was for all those people to have lost their lives at ******. However, place them with another gang of City fans (and a quantity of light ale) and a significant number are more than happy to chant Muncih songs.

I think all this comes down to (amongst other things of course) the baser, tribal/herding instincts of the human psyche. Furthermore, I feel that most people who chant these songs do so purely for antagonistic reasons, somehow bizarrely not correllating the songs to the reality of the tragedy. It's an opportunity for them to display their hatred of one tribe and their belonging to another.

An example of this working in reverse can be seen with United chanting songs about Hilsborough and Marc Foe.

Just an opinon and there to be shot at.

For the record, I'm not proud of it, but have sang many a ****** song in the past but have grown up significantly enough over the last 15 years to not feel the need to do it to prove I'm a Blue.

That's an absolute belter of a post, Eddie, and articulates what I was trying to say better than I did.

Top marks. Here endeth the debate in my opinion.

 

[GStar]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

I've not posted for ages and don't know why I feel compelled to post on this one? My opinion for what it's worth:

I feel that if you sat any City fan down on a one to one basis, that fan would likely agree what a God awful tragedy it was for all those people to have lost their lives at ******. However, place them with another gang of City fans (and a quantity of light ale) and a significant number are more than happy to chant Muncih songs.

I think all this comes down to (amongst other things of course) the baser, tribal/herding instincts of the human psyche. Furthermore, I feel that most people who chant these songs do so purely for antagonistic reasons, somehow bizarrely not correllating the songs to the reality of the tragedy. It's an opportunity for them to display their hatred of one tribe and their belonging to another.

An example of this working in reverse can be seen with United chanting songs about Hilsborough and Marc Foe.

Just an opinon and there to be shot at.

For the record, I'm not proud of it, but have sang many a ****** song in the past but have grown up significantly enough over the last 15 years to not feel the need to do it to prove I'm a Blue.

That's an absolute belter of a post, Eddie, and articulates what I was trying to say better than I did.

Top marks. Here endeth the debate in my opinion.

Yep. Should post a bit more often ;)

 

[M18CTID]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

I've not posted for ages and don't know why I feel compelled to post on this one? My opinion for what it's worth:

I feel that if you sat any City fan down on a one to one basis, that fan would likely agree what a God awful tragedy it was for all those people to have lost their lives at ******. However, place them with another gang of City fans (and a quantity of light ale) and a significant number are more than happy to chant Muncih songs.

I think all this comes down to (amongst other things of course) the baser, tribal/herding instincts of the human psyche. Furthermore, I feel that most people who chant these songs do so purely for antagonistic reasons, somehow bizarrely not correllating the songs to the reality of the tragedy. It's an opportunity for them to display their hatred of one tribe and their belonging to another.

An example of this working in reverse can be seen with United chanting songs about Hilsborough and Marc Foe.

Just an opinon and there to be shot at.

For the record, I'm not proud of it, but have sang many a ****** song in the past but have grown up significantly enough over the last 15 years to not feel the need to do it to prove I'm a Blue.

That's an absolute belter of a post, Eddie, and articulates what I was trying to say better than I did.

Top marks. Here endeth the debate in my opinion.

Yeah, kind of sums up my feelings. As did your post DD. What gets me almost as much as hearing the songs themselves is that some of those criticising won't own up to having done it themselves in the past.

 

[kippax88]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

I've not posted for ages and don't know why I feel compelled to post on this one? My opinion for what it's worth:

I feel that if you sat any City fan down on a one to one basis, that fan would likely agree what a God awful tragedy it was for all those people to have lost their lives at ******. However, place them with another gang of City fans (and a quantity of light ale) and a significant number are more than happy to chant Muncih songs.

I think all this comes down to (amongst other things of course) the baser, tribal/herding instincts of the human psyche. Furthermore, I feel that most people who chant these songs do so purely for antagonistic reasons, somehow bizarrely not correllating the songs to the reality of the tragedy. It's an opportunity for them to display their hatred of one tribe and their belonging to another.

An example of this working in reverse can be seen with United chanting songs about Hilsborough and Marc Foe.

Just an opinon and there to be shot at.

For the record, I'm not proud of it, but have sang many a ****** song in the past but have grown up significantly enough over the last 15 years to not feel the need to do it to prove I'm a Blue.

That's an absolute belter of a post, Eddie, and articulates what I was trying to say better than I did.

Top marks. Here endeth the debate in my opinion.

 

[Matty]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

I've not posted for ages and don't know why I feel compelled to post on this one? My opinion for what it's worth:

I feel that if you sat any City fan down on a one to one basis, that fan would likely agree what a God awful tragedy it was for all those people to have lost their lives at ******. However, place them with another gang of City fans (and a quantity of light ale) and a significant number are more than happy to chant Muncih songs.

I think all this comes down to (amongst other things of course) the baser, tribal/herding instincts of the human psyche. Furthermore, I feel that most people who chant these songs do so purely for antagonistic reasons, somehow bizarrely not correllating the songs to the reality of the tragedy. It's an opportunity for them to display their hatred of one tribe and their belonging to another.

An example of this working in reverse can be seen with United chanting songs about Hilsborough and Marc Foe.

Just an opinon and there to be shot at.

For the record, I'm not proud of it, but have sang many a ****** song in the past but have grown up significantly enough over the last 15 years to not feel the need to do it to prove I'm a Blue.

That's an absolute belter of a post, Eddie, and articulates what I was trying to say better than I did.

Top marks. Here endeth the debate in my opinion.

Not entirely sure why you've posted this Kippax88, it doesn't in way shape or form represent the views you've been posting thus far or defend your standpoint.

Basically this thread is saying that singing about M*nich could be seen to be a tribal thing, where you get dragged into it and join in with the masses. It also states that the OP actually did used to sing about M*nich but has come to realise that this wasn't the right way to go about supporting City.

You on the other hand seem to revel in the fact you sing it, to the point where you boast about it. Two extremely different things entirely.

Simply trying to tag along with a post that is articulately written doesn't work.

 

[Matty]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Yeah, kind of sums up my feelings. As did your post DD. What gets me almost as much as hearing the songs themselves is that some of those criticising won't own up to having done it themselves in the past.

Never chanted it, never will chant it. I hate United with a passion, especially at Derby time, and I'm fully of the opinion that the club treated those directly involved in the tragedy poorly, and that they've milked it like mad for the last half century to make themselves the global entity they currently are. However just because I feel they have cashed in on it doesn't mean I'm going to mock those that died, makes me no better than United and the rags themselves.

 

[felixbg]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

i dont like the myunich stuff at all ... but there are hundreds of blues that do, many of them go every week and have been for years and are huge blues. if we lost these passionate fans we wouldn't have the fan base we have now, so comments saying things like ''we dont want fans like you'' are a load of crap imo, we want their support we just want them to ease off on the myunich stuff which tbh is happening, there was a small group in the top right corner of the away end trying to get it going at old trafford on sunday, but very few joined in and it was quickly drowned out by ''city city city''.

 

[M18CTID]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Yeah, kind of sums up my feelings. As did your post DD. What gets me almost as much as hearing the songs themselves is that some of those criticising won't own up to having done it themselves in the past.

Never chanted it, never will chant it. I hate United with a passion, especially at Derby time, and I'm fully of the opinion that the club treated those directly involved in the tragedy poorly, and that they've milked it like mad for the last half century to make themselves the global entity they currently are. However just because I feel they have cashed in on it doesn't mean I'm going to mock those that died, makes me no better than United and the rags themselves.

Well I wasn't implying that everyone has done it in the past, only some but if you have a clean slate on that score then fair play to you.