Guvnors

[Newlunar]

Football violence is a thing of the past. It seems to me that it's the same old people in black coats and wrinkled bald heads trying to recreate something they did years ago and a growing group of impressionable younger dimwits who look up to the older lot like they were Normandy veterans or something.

What makes me fookin piss about the shabby crowd of spotty herberts who skip backwards and forwards between the Bof the B and Mary Dee's when there's a bunch of ageing ne'erdowells having a reunion, is that there is a perfectly good war going on overseas. If you like violence so much, sign up, otherwise STFU and sit down!

bloody ell, how old are you mate? no one was asking what you think of football violence and whether or not you think there are ''spotty herberts'' (your language is dreadful) supporting city.

having read the book myself, i found it to be a great read. It allowed me to imagine how it would of felt like as not only a home fan, but an away fan in the past coupe of decades. I'm sorry, but to call them all 'dimwits' is just daft, If people seek safety in numbers and have a laugh doing it, calling them names doesn't do anything else than antagonise. And what has wars got to so with anything...bloody, dramaticaly exagerated thoughts there.

Yes, can't say I'm surprised.

I'm 41. Old enough to remember matches well enough in the 80's and they weren't the nirvana your sacred book makes them out to be. Many times it was shit route one football played in a half empty stadium where the ground was so empty they gave the whole of the Platt Lane to about 200 away fans to run around in. So our wonderful hooligan element often used to turn on their own at the slightest excuse.

Having a laugh? Safety in numbers? Acting like a cowardly no mark more like. Like I said if you like fighting go and join the army while the goings good. Nothing dramatic about that, just a simple fact.

I'll work on my language, thanks for the tip and thanks for setting a higher standard for me to aspire to.

 

[Pigeonho]

great book, & im only on the second chapter, loving it already, anybody else read it, opinions?

Glorifying violence in a week in which a 3 year old kid got hit with a brick at City?

Kids who act tough mouthing it off, and bricking fans in crowds are not tough. They are cowards and idiots.

That book's for mugs. If you want violence, go to a gym, get yourself fit, and take up boxing or one of the martial arts.

Not being funny, but are you going to have a go at Ric then for advertising 'The Firm' on this website?

 

[bluefandk]

Those books never tell the truth about what really did happen.

They always wanna pretend, that it was always mano a mano fighting. they never tell the stories of the many cowardly attacks on women and children.

I am so glad that this is a thing of the past, these jokers almost killed football, if people wanna read fairy tales, then fair enough, just dont pretend it has anything to do with reality.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Those books never tell the truth about what really did happen.

They always wanna pretend, that it was always mano a mano fighting. they never tell the stories of the many cowardly attacks on women and children.

I am so glad that this is a thing of the past, these jokers almost killed football, if people wanna read fairy tales, then fair enough, just dont pretend it has anything to do with reality.

I've quoted your post but will answer other comments I've seen also.

City fans turning on themselves? Evidence? I never once saw City fans attack other blues in the 70's or 80's until last year in the South Stand when some no mark skinhead offered me out thinking I wouldn't defend myself because he said I was LOOKING AT HIM FUNNY. There was one time when The COOL CATS arranged for a fight between them and some alleged NF lads from Collyhurst I think outside The Brunswick. This pub was also a common place for blues to meet before MEETING the Cockney reds who got off the train at Piccadilly.

Attacking women and kids? Yes I did see that at a home Derby game once where man Yoo had attacked a City fan Father with his two kids. He had blood all over his face and his kids were crying near Platt lane. Made us go wild and attack any crews of Reds we saw. (No women or kids I will add)

Mistaken Identity: Once I went to Birmingham away and the coach I was on the lads stuck together like glue, military fashion as you HAD to in those days. Safety in numbers, and we saw a group of 100 or so fans near our coach after the game so we ran at them first thinking they were brummies and that if we didn't start first they'd get the upper hand. They were in fact Man City fans from the supporters club and sh1t themselves. Was quite funny at the time but we did bollock them for running away. It was going on at loads of grounds and being a City fan in those days could be quite scary .

Fans fighting amongst themselves: It's something that will always happen: fans falling out over views etc. Take this thread for example.

Not reality? How do you know it wasn't reality? I saw MANY things but didn't write a book about it all. I could though. Like MANY other lads on here could. It was a different era.

I would never glorify violence as I hate it now.

YOU HAD NO CHOICE in those days to be honest. It was happening EVERYWHERE. Well ok I FELT that I had no choice for those who say oo I NEVER DID ANYTHING.

I even knew Blues who went to just City and Man Yoo away games. Lots of Mancs just went for the robbing and violence. It was huge and can't be dismissed as fairy stories otherwise we won't learn from it. Yes the child hit by a stone was awful and injuries like that sicken me now. I was attacked many times in the 70's and nearly stabbed by Chelsea and Man Yoo so understand what it feels like to be a victim. Unless you were there don't say it was ALL made up shit because it actually wasn't all made up. Maybe some of that book was, but what I SAW in the 70's and 80's certainly wasn't.

You say go to Iraq or join a Gym? Iraq wasn't happening at that time and even the Falklands didn't last long. I had friends in the army at that time anyway and they were even worse than us when they came back here and were massive City hooligans trained to kill. In fact I DID go to a kick boxing Gym ran by lads from Moss Side (The Martial Arts Centre on deansgate) where we learned to fight. Some lads even entered tournaments.

Anyway....end of rant . I should forget all this shyte but it's part of MY history and sad as it was it happened and is something that we should learn from.

Football violence gains you nothing and could scar you for life, put you in prison (my friends son is doing 2 years), kill or maim others . Some people did very well out of it all though.

 

[azatheblue]

So you would never read a book or watch a film about someone doing something you dont agree with?

Read it a couple of years back, really enjoyed it.

i don't see the point of glorifying wankers .

so youve never watched green street, football factory , this is england , the firm .......pull the other one pal!!

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, can't say I'm surprised.

I'm 41. Old enough to remember matches well enough in the 80's and they weren't the nirvana your sacred book makes them out to be. Many times it was shit route one football played in a half empty stadium where the ground was so empty they gave the whole of the Platt Lane to about 200 away fans to run around in. So our wonderful hooligan element often used to turn on their own at the slightest excuse.

Having a laugh? Safety in numbers? Acting like a cowardly no mark more like. Like I said if you like fighting go and join the army while the goings good. Nothing dramatic about that, just a simple fact.

I'll work on my language, thanks for the tip and thanks for setting a higher standard for me to aspire to.

Those books never tell the truth about what really did happen.

They always wanna pretend, that it was always mano a mano fighting. they never tell the stories of the many cowardly attacks on women and children.

I am so glad that this is a thing of the past, these jokers almost killed football, if people wanna read fairy tales, then fair enough, just dont pretend it has anything to do with reality.

The two best posts in this topic. I too remember going to games as a teenager back in those days & it was fcuking terrifying at times. One more thing... would Hillsborough have happened if there weren't fences around the ground? Yes, there would still have been a crush but people would have had somewhere to escape to. Why were the fences there? Because of the fcuking idiots who were causing the trouble back then.

 

[Newlunar]

Without multi quoting everyone I just want to clarify my view on a couple of things. I've bought one book on the subject -SoulCrew about Cardiff fans. I mistakenly thought it would have made reference to soul music as well as football so it caught my eye. It was disappointing to say the least.
I borrowed the Guvnors and thought it was mildly interesting with a pinch of salt but I'm glad I didn't pay for it. Green St, Football factory etc are all just shit on so many levels. They don't offend me, they amuse me if anything.
As for safety in numbers- I wouldn't want to see City fans scuttling about like scared rabbits and if you're attacked as a group then you've every right to defend yourself. But there's a big difference between that and being part of an organised firm.
If only they did keep it amongst themselves as they always profess in these books then that would have a sort of misplaced noble acceptability to it.

As for what I saw, I saw a mate who admittantly used to stand out in a crowd being big and daft and vocal get asked where he was from on the Kippax top corner circa 84. He was with his girlfriend. He told them he was from Chapel and he was right hooked which almost knocked him out and his bird was devastated. They thought he meant Heaton Chapel and that warranted the attack apparently, They were blues and they new he was a blue.
Another time one of usual group made a daft harmless remark about one of the casuals in a deerstalker. He went fookin mental and went to the bottom of the tunnel and before long there was a growing group and we were all being pointed out for a good kicking. Bearing in mind we were only 16 years old we shit it. All over one remark. We were playing Wolves that day and won 4-0 if memory serves me right, when the final goal went in we got out sharpish in different directions.
Later that year I was at a match and was beckoned over by three casuals. When I got to them one of them smacked me in the kite and said it was for eyeballing his mate. I hadn't at all. It was because I had a mod parka on at the time as was my want as a teenager and casuals had a downer on mods in Manchester in the mid eighties.
Finally, on the way back from Sheff Utd on the train we had a mate with us who had got into the hooligan thing in a big way and there was someone who was higher up the tree than him
accused him of battering him while he was pissed in town at some point. The lad was pleading his innocence and genuinely shitting himself at the promised reprisals. I just thought, I'm glad I'm not involved in all that shit.
That's what I witnessed, need I go on? Not to mention stories relayed from mates of women and children getting caught up and hurt in it all. I started playing Football on Saturdays instead because it frankly became a dire insidious experience most of the time.
I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it, that's the way it was then, it's part of our past and that's where it belongs.
There's other City sites that revel in that nonsense but don't expect it to go unchallenged on here because there's plenty of people who were there, some who even took part who don't want it back.

 

[levets]

Well Donald was my neighbour in Openshaw.

I read Mickeys book and lots of what was written I remember witnessing myself. Whether it was from Donalds activities I don't know. You may know more than me there.

I never knew Mickey Francis as he is slightly younger than me . I used to go on Donalds coaches.

I remember Mikey Williams....selling tickets. A great guy.

Mikey was one of my dear friends, miss him a great deal........ wasn't having a pop by the way, just the book although well written, enjoy peter walsh work, cocky being one of my favorite books, it distorts the enigma which is MF. And donald is a great bloke, would stand toe to toe with anyone, though he himself would tell you it is a great regret he lives with being involved in that scene.

though he himself would tell you it is a great regret he lives with being involved in that scene.
====================
when did he start to have those regrets mate? Was still at it 04-05 near clockface..

 

[mad4city]

It's a sure sign that there's a recession on when these numb-nuts are being regarded as icons.
I'm old enough to remember the hoolies for what they were - neo-fascist, cowards and bullies. They should put that in their books - and yes, I did (and do) tell them so to their faces.
*It's because of these people's actions that we can't stand at games anymore.
*It's because of these people's actions that dads are afraid to bring their kids to games.
*It's because of these people's actions that anything SKY (and their re-branding of football) says, gets the green light from the government.
*It's because of these people's actions that a blind eye was turned when the game was priced out of the reach of the working classes.
*It's largely because of these people that kids with no work (you'll be seeing a lot of that soon, unfortunately) get into trouble instead of channelling their energies more productively.
*It's because of these people that ethnic minorities still feel intimidated about participating in football.

Why don't they all f**k off and ruin somebody else's sport?

Look, if you want to read a book about these idiots, great. Just be aware that they caused pain, misery, suffering and death to a great many people whose only crime was to want to watch a game of football.

 

[bluestevei]

I was at Everton in 81, all the scousres joined up, it was nasty. Paul Power 2-2, those scousers were not best pleased.

what happened,because i was there and apart from a few shouting and howling, i didnt see anything. and we was parked just off stanley park not far from the bus area down the side of the park.