Here we go ...

Bluebee2 said:
Ammy said:
Bluebee2 said:
Read the New Testament and you will find most things are fact !

...but as the op said to start with, how do you know (not believe, know)?

We know Jesus existed, that is a fact, not a belief !

I've got no problem accepting that a man called Jesus existed. Who he was though is not clear - an advocate of love and peace or a political revolutionary. Records have different accounts.
I'll even accept that one of his friends went travelling to spread this man's ideas.
But that is it.
Everything else is story time. Gossip and tales passed from mouth to mouth, by unreliable 'witnesses'. Eventually written down, often by people who were not even there at the time. The book itself was complied and heavily edited by a Roman emperor, centuries later, as a political tool to control the mainly Pagan populous.
It has since been translated and retranslated many times.

That is fact.
 
pominoz said:
Ducado said:
pominoz said:
And i yours, the difference being i can not reply in the same way that you do, because of your reputation of wielding the ban hammer when posters disagree with your views.
I will leave it at that with you.

I have never banned anyone for disagreeing with me, I am surprised at someone who professes to want to see evidence would come out with such a statement, so can you show me the evidence otherwise apologise

I was banned for calling BB.2 a troll, i thought it was you and have checked my pm's but it is not there.
If it was not you i apologise.

I can't check as I am on my phone however even if it was me, it is not evidence that I ban people who disagree with me, which I think is a pretty outrageous accusation so I am still waiting for evidence that I have ever banned someone for disagreeing with me
 
Markt85 said:
first of all you have dismissed the idea of God immediately..."God is an idea", let me tell you I came to God through reason, I consider myself a man of reason and in no way should a Christian come to God in blind faith (as lovely as that is) but sadly most people, agnostic, Atheist and Christian alike neglect looking at the evidence and come to a conclusion, I do not have the space or time right at this moment to outline in detail why I believe in God through reason but I can lay a foundation but it will raise more questions.....first of all.....if I am to come to your way of thinking it would mean believing that the universe came from NOTHING, 40 years ago scientist believed the world was eternal now we understand that the Universe had a beginning 13 Billion years ago, well science tells us that....and take this is.....SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING, everything that exists HAS to have a cause....if I am to come to your way of thinking then I have to say, either I don't know or the universe just simply POPED INTO EXISTENCE....surely that can't be right! The universe by the laws of Physics has to have a cause, and that cause MUST transcend time, space and physical matter since whatever created the universe created these things, secondly the ordered universe.....How do you account for the complexity of the universe? The universe works mathematically, everything is ordered and appears designed for human life, th else's of physics Hang on a razors edge in order for human life to exist, look at the rate of gravity, the Earth distance from the sun, water on the planet, ozone layer, the moon hanging us on a tilt, all of this and much more if you changed by a hairs breath, human life could not exist....thirdly the law of morality and you touched on this, if God does not exist then OBJECTIVE Morals, values and meaning cannot exist, now by this that does not mean YOU do not hold these things of course you do, but if God does not exist the morals you have are simply in your head they are an illusion to the devastating reality that nothing is WRONG or RIGHT it is just a smokescreen, but Objective Morals DO EXIST, Rape is wrong weather anyone believes it is or not, kindness and Love is really right, moral values are written on the heart of every man, sure they can be disobeyed but they are there nonetheless, the Athiest is in a dilemma here, on one hand he said God does not exist so we are simply a mixture of atoms, blood guts, we are result of NATURE nothing more and so ultimately we mean no more than a swarm of Mosquitos, and so he says there is no Objective meaning to life, but then down the local boozer he immediately jumps out of that worldview and shouts at someone who said that he beat his wife up, and shouts....."That's Wrong!".....well I presume he wants everyone to feel that way and so is appealing to some Wrong or moral law that EVERYONE should indie by. One final note on the situation on poverty....it would be interesting to go back to the century and speak to the millions that believed legal slavery in the west was just a standard reality that would always exist....how wrong they were, man rose to that evil, poverty is a complete injustice and in time we will understand that more and more, since live aid 30 years ago the reality is coming to everyone's homes weather they like it or not.....the above is such a small version of the reasons behind the existence of God it is almost childish, if you havnt already you will find various lectures on YouTube or the Internet has great recourses or I as someone who takes this seriously as a committed Christian am happy to go into much more detail with any questions you have, all I will advise is that it is a journey, it took years of investigation to come to the conclusion that God exists, and Athiesm is seriously flawed and contradictory

That reads like someone has just come home from a William Lane Graig lecture (the king of the fine tuning argument).

Watch this.I was at this event and Krauss pissed it in (although this was more of a conversation than a debate.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xcgjtps5ks[/youtube]

-- Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:18 am --

Ducado said:
pominoz said:
Ducado said:
I have never banned anyone for disagreeing with me, I am surprised at someone who professes to want to see evidence would come out with such a statement, so can you show me the evidence otherwise apologise

I was banned for calling BB.2 a troll, i thought it was you and have checked my pm's but it is not there.
If it was not you i apologise.

I can't check as I am on my phone however even if it was me, it is not evidence that I ban people who disagree with me, which I think is a pretty outrageous accusation so I am still waiting for evidence that I have ever banned someone for disagreeing with me

You asked for an apology if i was wrong, you have got it, move on.
 
Bluebee2 said:
pominoz said:
Bluebee2 said:
There are written accounts of his life and execution. jesus lived and that is a fact. Dawkins admits Jesus existed, I'm not here to argue any other point other than Jesus lived. See what he say's at 9.25 mins, he'll do for me !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLRE_SIMMU[/youtube]

Nice editing ;)

There are written accounts of his life and execution from people that were not there, and that have a vested interest to spread the story of their Messiah.
Dawkins saying that JC may have lived (poor editing aside, what did they cut out of the clip?) does not prove as a fact that he did.

Dawkins didn't say he may have lived did he ? He said, "I take that back, Jesus existed" , that is a statement that he lived and existed in our world, fact !

I am about to watch the full debate, without the editing in your clip.
You have ignored everything Dawkins said before and after that comment. So if Dawkins said JC existed it is a fact, yet every other thing he says is not?
 
pominoz said:
Bluebee2 said:
pominoz said:
Nice editing ;)

There are written accounts of his life and execution from people that were not there, and that have a vested interest to spread the story of their Messiah.
Dawkins saying that JC may have lived (poor editing aside, what did they cut out of the clip?) does not prove as a fact that he did.

Dawkins didn't say he may have lived did he ? He said, "I take that back, Jesus existed" , that is a statement that he lived and existed in our world, fact !

I am about to watch the full debate, without the editing in your clip.
You have ignored everything Dawkins said before and after that comment. So if Dawkins said JC existed it is a fact, yet every other thing he says is not?

It matter's not about the rest of the debate, he admits Jesus existed, move on as you say !
 
Mark85 - I'm not going to quote your whole post but I'd like to pick up on a couple of things...
1. You cannot create a God just to fill in gaps that science had not (yet) been able to explain.
Gaps in scientific knowledge do not prove the existence of a god

2. God believers do not have 'objective morality', by nature of having to follow the rules set out in the bible, they are good because they will be punished if they are not.
 
Bluebee2 said:
pominoz said:
Bluebee2 said:
Dawkins didn't say he may have lived did he ? He said, "I take that back, Jesus existed" , that is a statement that he lived and existed in our world, fact !

I am about to watch the full debate, without the editing in your clip.
You have ignored everything Dawkins said before and after that comment. So if Dawkins said JC existed it is a fact, yet every other thing he says is not?

It matter's not about the rest of the debate, he admits Jesus existed, move on as you say !

You have not watched the whole debate have you?, just an edited clip from a religious site.
Since when was Dawkins the last word on JC's existence?
I actually think there probably was a radical Jew called Jesus that had followers, but there is no real evidence. There for it is not a fact.
 
pominoz said:
Bluebee2 said:
pominoz said:
I am about to watch the full debate, without the editing in your clip.
You have ignored everything Dawkins said before and after that comment. So if Dawkins said JC existed it is a fact, yet every other thing he says is not?

It matter's not about the rest of the debate, he admits Jesus existed, move on as you say !

You have not watched the whole debate have you?, just an edited clip from a religious site.
Since when was Dawkins the last word on JC's existence?
I actually think there probably was a radical Jew called Jesus that had followers, but there is no real evidence. There for it is not a fact.

No probable about it, Jesus existed, fact ! Move on !
 
So Jesus definitely lived , did he?

Is there a living soul alive today who can actually 100% verify that ??

There may well be documentation , or writings , speaking of his existence , but there probably are about the Yeti , or Loch Ness Monster too ...... we'll never really know for sure , will we ???
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.