Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[SWP's back]

What's Boris done?

Nothing really he said something about Scoucers being rather self pitying or something like that, nothing to do with this, they got upperty about it, it was an observation, its all about free speech really

He said they were self pitying, and that it was the fault of drunken hooligans and that they were trying to shift the blame to The Sun. Probably doing it at the behest of one of his Eton chums. The bloke is a ****.

Apart from the fact he didn't say it.<br /><br />-- Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:38 pm --<br /><br />

How did he did his toe in if he didn't write it?

By association.

I can't believe you are defending any connection he had to that statement, however tenuous.

Perhaps he was just really busy that day though.

Whether he, I, you or Desmond Tutu agreed with it is not the point. It was an editorial comment piece written by someone else. Or does an editor agree with every word they allow to be printed?

He was right to apologise for allowing it to go to print but he shouldn't be vilified for the words as if they were his own.

 

[mackenzie]

Nothing really he said something about Scoucers being rather self pitying or something like that, nothing to do with this, they got upperty about it, it was an observation, its all about free speech really

He said they were self pitying, and that it was the fault of drunken hooligans and that they were trying to shift the blame to The Sun. Probably doing it at the behest of one of his Eton chums. The bloke is a ****.

Apart from the fact he didn't say it.

Really?
He was the Editor wasn't he?
Bit like Kelvin MacKenzie at The Sun then.

 

[Ducado]

I think we are getting side tracked here

Can I just remind everyone that everyone has the right to an opinion, as long as it's expressed in the right manner (with out insulting someone), can we cut out the emotive language when it comes to debating the issues

 

[bernabias home shirt]

Why do you think? He was the Editor of the Spectator and the Tories had to be seen to distance themselves from it.

But it does not make him responsible for the article or for writing the words. You're a bright bloke, you know people are made to apologise for things in the public arena that they aren't responsible for all the time.

He will have given the go ahead for them quotes to be printed am I right?

Supposedly the Editor is meant to read every word of every article but doing that whilst being a full time MP and director of a couple of companies, I very much doubt that happens.

Either way, he was probably right to apologise for it appearing in the paper but people vilifying him for those words now and trying to say they are his are just trying to point score on tories/toffs on an emotive thread in true bluemoon fashion.

Come on mate
Even you can't defend this **** on this one.

 

[malg]

Why do you think? He was the Editor of the Spectator and the Tories had to be seen to distance themselves from it.

But it does not make him responsible for the article or for writing the words. You're a bright bloke, you know people are made to apologise for things in the public arena that they aren't responsible for all the time.

He will have given the go ahead for them quotes to be printed am I right?

Supposedly the Editor is meant to read every word of every article but doing that whilst being a full time MP and director of a couple of companies, I very much doubt that happens.

Either way, he was probably right to apologise for it appearing in the paper but people vilifying him for those words now and trying to say they are his are just trying to point score on tories/toffs on an emotive thread in true bluemoon fashion.

Yes he is responsible for it, hence being the Editor. I'm not trying to score points on toffs, because Blair and his fucking shower done fuck all about it either. Absolutely nothing to do with toffs, just about a huge government, police and media cover up.

Oh, and that fucking idiot Johnson wants to be PM! Jesus Christ, Britain really will have plumbed the depths if he ever gets in.

 

[SWP's back]

He said they were self pitying, and that it was the fault of drunken hooligans and that they were trying to shift the blame to The Sun. Probably doing it at the behest of one of his Eton chums. The bloke is a ****.

Apart from the fact he didn't say it.

Really?
He was the Editor wasn't he?
Bit like Kelvin MacKenzie at The Sun then.

My last reply to you as we are getting told off, I think there is a world of difference between an editorial opinion piece and a headline such as the one which carried greavous lies as opposed to ignorant but unfortuantely commonly held misconceptions that were spread by the police.

You may disagree but that's life.

@TCM, can fella and have done. :-)

 

[Rascal]

Conservative PM makes a statement blaming the police but conveniently forgets about Thatchers demonising of football supporters at the time and her probable influence over the police statements and that vile newspaper report.

Lets get a few things straight here, this was the most appalling tragedy and the cover up made it worse, but for many years previously the behaviour of British Football fans had been an appalling a stain on the nation, the game was dying on it's feet, families were afraid to go to games and violence was rife, and nothing was changing (I remember being chased by a load of Stanley knife yielding scoucers and a coming close to death in Stoke) So don't anyone post this rosy picture and turn this into a class thing, as a collective we behaved as animals and were treated as such, the only surprise is that this had not happened earlier, I remember (I think it was Wolves or Leicester) where I thought that if people got out alive from the tiny section we were in it would have been a miracle such was the crush, as for getting in without tickets it was rife at nearly every ground, so no one actually knew how many were actually in there, we have come a long way since then

Im sorry Ducky mate, that is not fair. As a collective as you put it we didnt all behave like animals, we were not all scum, we were not all hooligans, thieves , lowlife or whatever the popular term of the day used by politicians and the media used to smear us.

You just can not excuse the demonisation of us real football fans by the media and politicians. It suited there agenda to label us as scum. I have travelled extensively over the years following City, 83 grounds i think, since 1974. I witnessed appaling treatment against normal people just going to a game to support there team. Yes there were hooligans, but they were never in the majority, never in my opinion above 1% of the people who watched the game. Yet we were all tarred with the same brush.

If anything about todays statement it vindicates my view that the establishment did not understand the passions involved if following a football club, it didnt understand the culture of the people who followed a football club, it didnt understand the lives of ordinary people.

Hillsborough gave the right wing media and the right wing intelligensia the notion that the working class were scum, they believed that we could piss on dead people, they believed that we could rob dead people. It gave them the narrative that is so persuasive in modern Britain of Camerons broken society.

Today is a day all football should applaud, im so pleased the good people of Liverpool have been shown to be the ones telling the truth, im so pleased that the wider football fraternity who suffered massive injustices through those dreadful years will see some justice.

JFT96

 

[sir baconface]

No fuckin way is that twat a City fan. Probably one of red issues cabbages.

Twats are twats, no matter who they support.

Yet to meet a united fan that isn't a twat, and I've met a lot.

If you are born a raging twat, the chances are you'll become a united fan.

Useful contribution, blootoof.

 

[nwhn3]

The point is that the police lied, cover ups were carried out and liverpool fans were blamed, subsequent inquests did not overturn this.

Subsequently the spectator writes an article blaming liverpool fans on the basis of this information. I trust that whoever wrote the article appreciates today that they were misinformed in their writings and would obviously not have the same view today. However, if official documentations findings report liverpool fans were to blame, I do not necessarily castigate a person for having this particular opinion, however wrong.

This is the exact reason why the families wanted the truth to ensure that everyone who believed that the liverpool fans were to blame would understand that they had been sold lies through corruption at the highest levels.

At least once Boris Johnson was made aware of this cock up, he actually agreed to go to Liverpool to apologise in person. Most over politicians or even jounalist would just issue a statement.

However, this is a side issue to the main concerns regarding how corruption of this level could possibly be allowed and why no one in government in 23 years had the bottle to address the issue and ensure the truths were told and the in justice overturned.

 

[sir baconface]

Twats are twats, no matter who they support.

Yet to meet a united fan that isn't a twat, and I've met a lot.

If you are born a raging twat, the chances are you'll become a united fan.

Thoughtful contribution, blootoof.