Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

whyalwaysLee said:
I also believed that fans turned up without tickets and caused a panic at the turnstiles where people were getting crushed.

I remember going to lots of games throughout the 80's and early 90's, and plenty of us were on the jib, and we even climbed into pens that were full, coz thats where all the craic and singing was. I got crushed loads of times including goodison park where a lad from my school was carried over the barriers to waiting police coz he'd blacked out from lack of oxygen.

When Hillsbourough occured it was only 4 years after Heysel and many rival supporters considered that Liverpool fans were once again up to no good, and this was also fueled by the media. I would like to apologise for jumping to conclusions and for being so naive.

The senior officers who created this cover up, should be brought to task and charged with perverting the course of justice. Regardless of how old they now are.

Do you think the senior officers have had this on their conscience for 23 years? If I was involved in such a cover up I couldn't sleep at night but if they're happy enough to cover it up, maybe they're happy enough to be enjoying their retirements thinking the truth would never surface
 
Sorry in advance for the long post.

There is much to be said, I think, in favour of the moderators splitting this thread into three separate threads. I say that because we have got three separate issues being debated here and having three issues in one thread muddies the water rather than clears it.

The first issue is that due to a combination of factors, an appalling tragedy occurred in 1989 which meant that 96 fans of another team lost their lives. Wherever the blame rests for that, and it seems that the answer to that is that the blame lies very largely with the policing of the game, it might be helpful to remember that there is no evidence that a single person went to the match that day with the intention of causing the loss of life. It was a tragedy, yes, an appalling and – crucially – an avoidable tragedy, but tragedies are part of life. Whether the failings displayed on that day by the police, SWFC and others are so bad as to leave them open to criminal or civil liability is a more difficult matter, and I am not well enough up on the actual specific causes of the tragedy to reach a view.

For instance, at 2.45 one of the PCs on the ground radio’d up (IIRC) with a request to put back the kick off. A simple idea which might have saved 96 lives. I don’t know why that request – acknowledged, but not acted on – was ignored. Somebody made a decision not to do that, and – without intending it – that decision cost lives. Whoever that somebody was, they were plainly working under pressure. Did they make an honest mistake? If they did, should they face civil or criminal charges for making an honest mistake, even one with such awful consequences? I don’t know about that.

Likewise the management of the tragedy once it had occurred could have been better – much much better – but isn’t that true of many catastrophes? So calls for retribution against the participants are a difficult one in my view. Not that they should get off scot free, but nor is a lynching going to be helpful.

There is also the point that since 1989 we have learned some of the lessons of Hillsborough. Never again will we allow such a tragedy – which football had flirted with before (my god, in 1981 it could so easily have been us). Our stadium is not a potential deathtrap, it is one of the Cathedrals of the modern game. It is beautiful. And it is safe – they all are. So I can take my beloved sons and my beloved daughters to watch my beloved team and know they will not be crushed to death. And for that, I owe a debt of thanks to 96 Liverpool fans who went to watch their team but never made it home.

So why the tragedy happened is one issue in this thread. Then there is the second issue. Some people seem to hold the view that because the 96 people who died were Liverpool fans, it shouldn’t trouble us that much that they lost their lives. This school of thought apparently holds that scouse lives are somewhat less valuable than those of real people, presumably because they all wear shell suits, or because Liverpool as a City is responsible for Heysel, benefit cheats, whinging, an annoying accent, victim mentality, Jimmy Tarbuck, curly black hair and quite possibly bad cat aids. I think a separate thread for these people to express their views in happy isolation from the other issues would be quite an improvement to the debate.

But then there is the third issue. A tragedy occurred in 1989, the fault for which (whether or not it involves criminal liability or breach of any legal duty) lies with the police (SYP). Had they manned up in ’89 they would have been slaughtered for it at the time, but they would have got through it. Probably, SYP would have been a better place for it, after the inevitable inquiry and the lessons were learned. But for what look like entirely political reasons there was a combination of cover-up and smear campaign. So it was that “The Truth” was peddled that the whole thing was the fault of drunken scousers who went round robbing dead bodies. The revelation that the criminal records and alcohol consumption of the deceased were checked in search of ammunition for use in a propaganda war is just one aspect of the despicable campaign waged against people who could no longer defend themselves. Evidence was destroyed, statements were doctored. They used those tactics in South Africa during the Apartheid years, I understand.

I can’t stress enough that this is a wholly separate issue to why the tragedy occurred. If you have responsibility for lots of lives, and you fuck up, people die. That is a shit deal (although those deals tend to be quite well paid accordingly). But it also means that we should perhaps think twice before throwing to the lions people who cause loss of life in this way. We have, I think, to accept that tragedies will from time to time happen due to human failings: all of us, we’re only human.

There is no excuse whatsoever for destroying evidence, tampering with statements, peddling disinformation. The scale of the conspiracy is breathtaking, and I have no hesitation in saying that IMO every single person who was involved in that process has to explain why their conduct does not involve a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. If the answer is 'it was a conspiracy', they should all be charged, every last one of them.

This distinction between the fuck ups on the day and the later attempts to cover it up and push the blame on to the fans themselves is to my mind crucial. Accepting blame for that which is your fault is an integral part of our justice system, it is an integral part of rehabilitation. That is why guilty pleas attract shorter sentences. SYP are largely responsible for the deaths, as today’s statement reveals. As an institution, they knew that. Yet they have lied and denied responsibility for almost a quarter of a century. Their conduct reminds me of nothing more than a drink-driver I once knew who killed a child through his drink driving, and blamed the child’s parents for not taking greater care of him (they were wholly blameless, by the way). It was a total abdication of responsibility. It was despicable. Just like SYP.

I use this user name infrequently and only to post on serious matters concerning the justice system. Since in a way I represent the justice system when I post in this capacity, if anyone reads this who is in any way connected to the 96, on behalf of that justice system that SYP and I are both part of I am so sorry. Your lost ones for 23 years have had their graves pissed on by SYP. They deserved so, so much better.
 
Please tell me this is not true, if it is action has to be taken.

Quote from BBC News:

"The prime minister Margaret Thatcher was briefed by her private secretary Bernard Ingham that the behaviour of the South Yorkshire Police was despicable".

That means she knew about it and did nothing!!
 
I visited Maine Road on many occasion back in the 70's and 80's when I first started going to matches, mostly because my Aunt worked in the development office and used to get us tickets.
My cousin is married to Gary James who writes excellent books about the club and the city.
So I speak as someone who regularly attended City matches, and indeed one half of my family (Mothers side) is blue to the core.

I grew up loving Liverpool. It's just one of those things that in my early childhood the team, the ethos and the club captured my imagination.

The terraces back then were both a joy and a source of fright. I've stood in the kippax with my other cousin, sat in the Platt Lane end and cheered on City as my second team (I still do except when they play Liverpool) no doubt somewhat conditioned by the free tickets, and my first glimpses of big games and stadia.
I was a football nut as a young lad, and I still am. When I couldn't get Liverpool or City tickets, I'd go to watch Oldham, Glossop, Stalybridge Celtic, Hyde United etc depending who was playing.
I've seen and heard all sorts, as no doubt many here have as well, and it's true that most, if not all, clubs have a minority following that are a disgrace to the name and other fans of their clubs. People who don't go to support, but use club colours as an excuse for a bit of mindless violence.

I've been reading this site for a while now, but registered today to voice my appreciation for the support most on here have shown. I know there's a couple of dickheads, but you get them every where, so I take no notice.

On behalf of my fellow reds, I'd like to say thanks for the heartfelt posts, the willingness to listen and learn from todays report and for the understanding that this was NOT the fault of the Liverpool fans that day.

Finally, congratulations on last seasons title win, and I hope you can stick it to utd again this season.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Looking at the threads we've had on this over the last couple of years, there are some City fans who need to apologise today.

I wonder how many have got the balls to do so?

PB-I am ashamed that I judged the Liverpool fans blaming them for this. Today I have learnt a lesson.

The police were solely responsible for this tragedy.Not one person else and I hope that criminal charges are brought.

To the people who are saying it was alcohol etc. How many of us drink at football matches..Loads of us.

Again..to any Liverpool fans who are reading this,I apologise.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Please tell me this is not true, if it is action has to be taken.

Quote from BBC News:

"The prime minister Margaret Thatcher was briefed by her private secretary Bernard Ingham that the behaviour of the South Yorkshire Police was despicable".

That means she knew about it and did nothing!!

They've tried other Nazis into their 90's. ;)
 
mackenzie said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
This isn't anything like 'justice'.

The filth and tories rock up 25 years later and just go 'yeah we lied, sorry' and that's that.

To be fair, the ones representing them today weren't responsible.

I don't even think Thatcher or her cronies at the time tried to cover up anything either. More a misplaced sense of believing what they were told by the Police, coupled with a complete detachment from the match going experience at that time of the vast majority of fans.

I doubt they even cared to be honest.

I'll be hammered if I posted my true opinions but for me, this is a huge injustice and if I was personally involved I'd want blood.

How many more times must the filth and the tories collude to pervert justice and attack/kill/maim and rape the working man?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Please tell me this is not true, if it is action has to be taken.

Quote from BBC News:

"The prime minister Margaret Thatcher was briefed by her private secretary Bernard Ingham that the behaviour of the South Yorkshire Police was despicable".

That means she knew about it and did nothing!!

Thatcher still raises rare passions from people on here. But the fact she did nothing is no suprise. The tory ideology of the day was to demonise the working class. Hillsborough gave them the perfect tool to carry on with attacks on the poor. By characterising all football fans as thieves drunks and hoolingans there narrative became mainstream modern thought. Football fans were scum, in those days football was almost 100% a workinng class game. By association with football, the working class in effect became the scum of the tory narrative. Even today that narrative continues with the likes of Camerons "broken Britain".

As a regular home and away follower from the late 70s, i witnessed some appaling treatment dished out by the police towards fans. We were all seen as scum, scum because we followed and dared to love a football club. I dont mean to sound patronising here, but the young posters on here would just not believe what happened in those days. Football today is so far removed from that of the days of Hillsborough it isnt true.

The truth is now out, perceptions need to change, football fans are not scum, we just love a game and are passionate about it. Now we need justice and we need to see it being done. Its important not only for the families of the 96 and the people of Liverpool but for all football fans who suffered huge miscarriages of abuse, intimidation and harrasment at the hands of the establishment, the media and the police. JFT96
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.