How can people still be negative about mancini?

To be fair there has not been much negative stuff posted since Saturday, football fans are notoriously fickle though it really is hero to zero stuff sometimes.

I can see what the Mancini has been trying to do, he has not always been successful and we have dropped some silly points, but all in all I think he is doing a great job, it's not always pretty I admit but it's getting more effective
 
As I'm sure people are aware, I'm one of Mancini's biggest defenders. I believe in his management style, I believe in his tactics, I believe in his man management skills, I believe in his long term vision for this club and I do believe that he will win leagues here.

However, I'm also not an idiot. Man United are challengers to the league title, Stoke are not. I walked into both of those games (and tonights) not with a feeling of "we're going to twat these 5-0", but with a worried feeling. We're better than them, and we can beat them. However, I never believe that we will beat a team comprehensively and even when we do, it tends to come down to the other team playing badly rather than us been unplayable.

Those who think that United was a dominant performance didn't see the same game as me.

At the back, we're fantastic and I never worry about us. In front of goal (yes, I know how many goals we have scored), we are pretty woeful. I don't believe this is down to bad tactics as we create many, many chances; you can argue about ineffective finishing, a lack of understanding of new players or whatever. Either way, it IS Mancini's job to sort this out. Maybe we just need time, I certainly believe so based on the interactions between Balo and Dzeko. We have much more "new players" at the front than we do at the back, and it will take some time for them to gel properly. I'm worried that David Silva still seems unable to speak even the most basic of English and that Tevez doesn't seem to want to either. However, Silva made a commitment to study hard this summer; Tevez, not so much.

I'm not going to say that we fluked the FA Cup, because we didn't. It's pretty impossible to "fluke" a cup, especially when you play the league champions, a team in its first final ever, and a Villa team with LOTS to prove. Just put it this way though, I wouldn't want to play those games again.

Mancini's problem, is that our team doesn't inspire confidence in the supporters. The sort of "we'll do these 5-0" confidence that other top teams have. We're still adjusting, as are our team and our manager. If their play gave us some reason to think that, then it may help. United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans, they've floated around the top for years, to instill confidence in the fans, we need something more to hang our hat on than "we beat Stoke 1-0!", we need big wins. The FA Cup will help us; like a timid animal, we are slowly starting to come out of our shell and beginning to have that confidence in our team, but those long termers are far to savvy to be bitten again by the false dawn bug. Even unconsciously, we still all have that idea that we could still be the next Blackburn, or Pompey. Time heals all wounds, and success will help. However, in the time between success, some dominant, high scoring wins might be appreciated.

Just my random collection of musings.
 
supa-dapa-dan said:
ST Coleridge said:
redmizzle said:
How can people still be negative about Mancini? I suspect it's an ego thing, they can't be seen to have been wrong on some internet forum.

This sums things up rather well.

This season-long debate has been 'Wrong man for the job' versus 'Give him time', and there's only one side to have been vindicated. I wish we could all be right, but hey - some of us appreciated that a manager in his first full season (plus 6/7 of the starting 11 in their first season in England) might make some mistakes along the way.

From the rather spiffy 'Mancini Out' thread...

Didsbury Dave:
"If Mancini is retained I'm going to think hard about renewing. I'll never desert the blues but it will kill my faith in the sheikh and khaldoons ability to make the right football decisions.
They retained hughes too long. If they allow this guy to derail the project any longer they prove their football naivity.But I don't believe they will. I have faith in The Sheikh's ability to see through this charlatan".

Britney Spears:
"Mancini is a charlatan. A fake. An overhyped moron with an overinflated ego who has been found out time and time and time again since he got here. He wouldn't get a fucking job managing Sunderland, let alone a club with serious ambitions in this league. It's been a nice break from Bluemoon for me and it will continue as long as that piece of shit manager is in charge of our beloved club...
Enjoy Wembley lads....my ticket has gone to someone who gives a shit. I don't.
Yeah yeah yeah. Damocles. It's been 12 months of me being told I'm being knee jerk. With respect - I can't stand the guy. Actively despise him. I truly believe he's a garbage manager. I'm sure you can patronize the fuck out of me with lots of long winded prose about his abilities. Won't change my opinion. You're backing a loser, and time will prove me right. Until then the floor is yours...."

DD:
"Now, can we start to see the light up top, get this fucker out and move on please, because if you don't see the light, we are going to win fuck all in my lifetime. PLEASE listen to me. PLEASE! I am lietrally begging you! :( "

All we ever asked was that you had a bit of patience, lads! Still, the important thing is that we're here now.
I like your style!!

Haha, great stuff. If people are gonna make comments like that then they deserve to have them thrown back in their face. Don't choke on the humble pie :p
 
I have not read the whole thread but I can understand why people don't like Mancini (I think).

With the money and some of the games we lost or played poorly in the average football fan clearly does not find this acceptable.

BUT

The average football fan is not a manager of people and regardless of wage value, these people need to be motivated, learn to work as a team, get over their own confidence issues and develop as players and people.

Yes, millionaire footballers still need to be motivated, blend with the team, get over their own confidence issues and develop as players and people.

Mancini is managing a team of people above and below him and this is never easy in real life.

Because it's football does not make it easier.

We should call him Marmite Mancini.
 
Damocles said:
As I'm sure people are aware, I'm one of Mancini's biggest defenders. I believe in his management style, I believe in his tactics, I believe in his man management skills, I believe in his long term vision for this club and I do believe that he will win leagues here.

However, I'm also not an idiot. Man United are challengers to the league title, Stoke are not. I walked into both of those games (and tonights) not with a feeling of "we're going to twat these 5-0", but with a worried feeling. We're better than them, and we can beat them. However, I never believe that we will beat a team comprehensively and even when we do, it tends to come down to the other team playing badly rather than us been unplayable.

Those who think that United was a dominant performance didn't see the same game as me.

At the back, we're fantastic and I never worry about us. In front of goal (yes, I know how many goals we have scored), we are pretty woeful. I don't believe this is down to bad tactics as we create many, many chances; you can argue about ineffective finishing, a lack of understanding of new players or whatever. Either way, it IS Mancini's job to sort this out. Maybe we just need time, I certainly believe so based on the interactions between Balo and Dzeko. We have much more "new players" at the front than we do at the back, and it will take some time for them to gel properly. I'm worried that David Silva still seems unable to speak even the most basic of English and that Tevez doesn't seem to want to either. However, Silva made a commitment to study hard this summer; Tevez, not so much.

I'm not going to say that we fluked the FA Cup, because we didn't. It's pretty impossible to "fluke" a cup, especially when you play the league champions, a team in its first final ever, and a Villa team with LOTS to prove. Just put it this way though, I wouldn't want to play those games again.

Mancini's problem, is that our team doesn't inspire confidence in the supporters. The sort of "we'll do these 5-0" confidence that other top teams have. We're still adjusting, as are our team and our manager. If their play gave us some reason to think that, then it may help. United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans, they've floated around the top for years, to instill confidence in the fans, we need something more to hang our hat on than "we beat Stoke 1-0!", we need big wins. The FA Cup will help us; like a timid animal, we are slowly starting to come out of our shell and beginning to have that confidence in our team, but those long termers are far to savvy to be bitten again by the false dawn bug. Even unconsciously, we still all have that idea that we could still be the next Blackburn, or Pompey. Time heals all wounds, and success will help. However, in the time between success, some dominant, high scoring wins might be appreciated.

Just my random collection of musings.

Great post. More or less how I feel.

Part of the problem is our consistency. We'll look good for 20 minutes, then get bossed for no apparent reason in the next 20. With the exception of a few decisive victories this year, every game has been a nail-biting rollercoaster.

Next season we really need to work on playing a full 90 minutes. We've dropped so many points from mental lapses like Everton.
 
remoh said:
samharris said:
JoeMercer'sWay said:
you made a thread about Mancini mate, that's like poking a tiger with a stick and wondering why it's ripped your head off 30 seconds later...

There are 3 certainties in life.
1. Death
2.Taxes
3.Start a Mancini thread on Bluemoon and you can bet Billy, Dave and DD will appear like magic..
Aint that the truth.

And I'm thankful for it. (It saves my typing finger)

You read like you don't like him Remoh. Are you my Dad? ;)
 
Blue Haze said:
Damocles said:
As I'm sure people are aware, I'm one of Mancini's biggest defenders. I believe in his management style, I believe in his tactics, I believe in his man management skills, I believe in his long term vision for this club and I do believe that he will win leagues here.

However, I'm also not an idiot. Man United are challengers to the league title, Stoke are not. I walked into both of those games (and tonights) not with a feeling of "we're going to twat these 5-0", but with a worried feeling. We're better than them, and we can beat them. However, I never believe that we will beat a team comprehensively and even when we do, it tends to come down to the other team playing badly rather than us been unplayable.

Those who think that United was a dominant performance didn't see the same game as me.

At the back, we're fantastic and I never worry about us. In front of goal (yes, I know how many goals we have scored), we are pretty woeful. I don't believe this is down to bad tactics as we create many, many chances; you can argue about ineffective finishing, a lack of understanding of new players or whatever. Either way, it IS Mancini's job to sort this out. Maybe we just need time, I certainly believe so based on the interactions between Balo and Dzeko. We have much more "new players" at the front than we do at the back, and it will take some time for them to gel properly. I'm worried that David Silva still seems unable to speak even the most basic of English and that Tevez doesn't seem to want to either. However, Silva made a commitment to study hard this summer; Tevez, not so much.

I'm not going to say that we fluked the FA Cup, because we didn't. It's pretty impossible to "fluke" a cup, especially when you play the league champions, a team in its first final ever, and a Villa team with LOTS to prove. Just put it this way though, I wouldn't want to play those games again.

Mancini's problem, is that our team doesn't inspire confidence in the supporters. The sort of "we'll do these 5-0" confidence that other top teams have. We're still adjusting, as are our team and our manager. If their play gave us some reason to think that, then it may help. United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans, they've floated around the top for years, to instill confidence in the fans, we need something more to hang our hat on than "we beat Stoke 1-0!", we need big wins. The FA Cup will help us; like a timid animal, we are slowly starting to come out of our shell and beginning to have that confidence in our team, but those long termers are far to savvy to be bitten again by the false dawn bug. Even unconsciously, we still all have that idea that we could still be the next Blackburn, or Pompey. Time heals all wounds, and success will help. However, in the time between success, some dominant, high scoring wins might be appreciated.

Just my random collection of musings.

Great post. More or less how I feel.

Part of the problem is our consistency. We'll look good for 20 minutes, then get bossed for no apparent reason in the next 20. With the exception of a few decisive victories this year, every game has been a nail-biting rollercoaster.

It is a definite, recognisable phenomena. Two things don't help. One, we are creating chance after chance in the first part of the game, and missing them all. Our strikers have all stopped scoring goals at the exact same time. Silva has tied himself in a big (little) non-goalscoring knot. They've hit the post, forced saves, missed sitters. One of these goals goes in and once the opponent has to chase a result, it's a different game, the one we are truly set up for (witness some of our gorgeous play once Stoke went behind).

Two, due to lapses of concentration, we are letting teams back in. Wolves (H) was never in doubt, but it felt like it was because we gave away a silly penalty to let them back in. The same thing against West Ham (H). Two up after 15 minutes. Cruising. Then a defender switches off, the offside trap collapses, Keane is clean through. We looked nervous from that moment.

The first problem does imply a certain awkwardness in the pattern, but the worst of it, the misses, will probably disappear by the start of next season. Assuming Dzeko gets his head and form right. I'd still love to see an small yet born-to-score forward at the club. Tevez has a lot of finishes but he's not quite what I have in mind. Aguerro or Higuain would be nice!

The second problem, well, I have my ideas on how we might solve that.

The broader problem is sustaining the play. Like concentration, in part this is a mental, motivational issue. In the midst of a genuine title challenge, I think it partly sorts itself out. But I do think some of our play breaks down due to a slight unease with the pattern. In my opinion, a lot of it is down to the fact our Goalkeeper, Left Sided Defender, Left Back, and Central Defensive Midfielder just aren't great technically. I have said elsewhere that the Goalkeeper is untouchable. I'd suggest that De Jong is as well (he's not top technical quality for his position, easily the top of the four but he does have his ooof moments). So in my opinion, Lescott and Kolarov should be worried, and Barry, the other link in this chain, simply has to excel on the ball, time after time.

These are the issues. Some of it comes down to a complicated game plan that doesn't entirely suit the players. But in defense of Mancini, he not only has to work with what he is given, he has to plan and build for the future. I wouldn't really expect him to tear up a game-plan if he believed it could work well enough for now, much better later (with a few different players). Marwood doesn't miss an opportunity to impress his control over the makeup of the squad upon us, so there you have it. It's a real world situation. Quite rightly, no-one is giving up their corner, they are all doing their best to make the compromise work. But something has to give sooner or later. I just don't see how we can win the CL with the basic problem of 4/5 non-technical players in a highly technical system. Two, maybe. And I don't see how a significantly less-technical system is ever going to win the CL.
 
Damocles said:
As I'm sure people are aware, I'm one of Mancini's biggest defenders. I believe in his management style, I believe in his tactics, I believe in his man management skills, I believe in his long term vision for this club and I do believe that he will win leagues here.

However, I'm also not an idiot. Man United are challengers to the league title, Stoke are not. I walked into both of those games (and tonights) not with a feeling of "we're going to twat these 5-0", but with a worried feeling. We're better than them, and we can beat them. However, I never believe that we will beat a team comprehensively and even when we do, it tends to come down to the other team playing badly rather than us been unplayable.

Those who think that United was a dominant performance didn't see the same game as me.

At the back, we're fantastic and I never worry about us. In front of goal (yes, I know how many goals we have scored), we are pretty woeful. I don't believe this is down to bad tactics as we create many, many chances; you can argue about ineffective finishing, a lack of understanding of new players or whatever. Either way, it IS Mancini's job to sort this out. Maybe we just need time, I certainly believe so based on the interactions between Balo and Dzeko. We have much more "new players" at the front than we do at the back, and it will take some time for them to gel properly. I'm worried that David Silva still seems unable to speak even the most basic of English and that Tevez doesn't seem to want to either. However, Silva made a commitment to study hard this summer; Tevez, not so much.

I'm not going to say that we fluked the FA Cup, because we didn't. It's pretty impossible to "fluke" a cup, especially when you play the league champions, a team in its first final ever, and a Villa team with LOTS to prove. Just put it this way though, I wouldn't want to play those games again.

Mancini's problem, is that our team doesn't inspire confidence in the supporters. The sort of "we'll do these 5-0" confidence that other top teams have. We're still adjusting, as are our team and our manager. If their play gave us some reason to think that, then it may help. United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans, they've floated around the top for years, to instill confidence in the fans, we need something more to hang our hat on than "we beat Stoke 1-0!", we need big wins. The FA Cup will help us; like a timid animal, we are slowly starting to come out of our shell and beginning to have that confidence in our team, but those long termers are far to savvy to be bitten again by the false dawn bug. Even unconsciously, we still all have that idea that we could still be the next Blackburn, or Pompey. Time heals all wounds, and success will help. However, in the time between success, some dominant, high scoring wins might be appreciated.

Just my random collection of musings.
A good and honest post amongst a sea of personal point scoring and abuse from some. When I get a couple of minutes I'll respond , seeing as you've had the sense and cpurtesy to try to look at the bigger picture. As it is I have a beer to finish and a game to watch.

Oh and by the way......"we won the cup, ee aye adio, we won the cup"

Come on city
 
Chick Counterfly said:
Blue Haze said:
Damocles said:
As I'm sure people are aware, I'm one of Mancini's biggest defenders. I believe in his management style, I believe in his tactics, I believe in his man management skills, I believe in his long term vision for this club and I do believe that he will win leagues here.

However, I'm also not an idiot. Man United are challengers to the league title, Stoke are not. I walked into both of those games (and tonights) not with a feeling of "we're going to twat these 5-0", but with a worried feeling. We're better than them, and we can beat them. However, I never believe that we will beat a team comprehensively and even when we do, it tends to come down to the other team playing badly rather than us been unplayable.

Those who think that United was a dominant performance didn't see the same game as me.

At the back, we're fantastic and I never worry about us. In front of goal (yes, I know how many goals we have scored), we are pretty woeful. I don't believe this is down to bad tactics as we create many, many chances; you can argue about ineffective finishing, a lack of understanding of new players or whatever. Either way, it IS Mancini's job to sort this out. Maybe we just need time, I certainly believe so based on the interactions between Balo and Dzeko. We have much more "new players" at the front than we do at the back, and it will take some time for them to gel properly. I'm worried that David Silva still seems unable to speak even the most basic of English and that Tevez doesn't seem to want to either. However, Silva made a commitment to study hard this summer; Tevez, not so much.

I'm not going to say that we fluked the FA Cup, because we didn't. It's pretty impossible to "fluke" a cup, especially when you play the league champions, a team in its first final ever, and a Villa team with LOTS to prove. Just put it this way though, I wouldn't want to play those games again.

Mancini's problem, is that our team doesn't inspire confidence in the supporters. The sort of "we'll do these 5-0" confidence that other top teams have. We're still adjusting, as are our team and our manager. If their play gave us some reason to think that, then it may help. United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea fans, they've floated around the top for years, to instill confidence in the fans, we need something more to hang our hat on than "we beat Stoke 1-0!", we need big wins. The FA Cup will help us; like a timid animal, we are slowly starting to come out of our shell and beginning to have that confidence in our team, but those long termers are far to savvy to be bitten again by the false dawn bug. Even unconsciously, we still all have that idea that we could still be the next Blackburn, or Pompey. Time heals all wounds, and success will help. However, in the time between success, some dominant, high scoring wins might be appreciated.

Just my random collection of musings.

Great post. More or less how I feel.

Part of the problem is our consistency. We'll look good for 20 minutes, then get bossed for no apparent reason in the next 20. With the exception of a few decisive victories this year, every game has been a nail-biting rollercoaster.

It is a definite, recognisable phenomena. Two things don't help. One, we are creating chance after chance in the first part of the game, and missing them all. Our strikers have all stopped scoring goals at the exact same time. Silva has tied himself in a big (little) non-goalscoring knot. They've hit the post, forced saves, missed sitters. One of these goals goes in and once the opponent has to chase a result, it's a different game, the one we are truly set up for (witness some of our gorgeous play once Stoke went behind).

Two, due to lapses of concentration, we are letting teams back in. Wolves (H) was never in doubt, but it felt like it was because we gave away a silly penalty to let them back in. The same thing against West Ham (H). Two up after 15 minutes. Cruising. Then a defender switches off, the offside trap collapses, Keane is clean through. We looked nervous from that moment.

The first problem does imply a certain awkwardness in the pattern, but the worst of it, the misses, will probably disappear by the start of next season. Assuming Dzeko gets his head and form right. I'd still love to see an small yet born-to-score forward at the club. Tevez has a lot of finishes but he's not quite what I have in mind. Aguerro or Higuain would be nice!

The second problem, well, I have my ideas on how we might solve that.

The broader problem is sustaining the play. Like concentration, in part this is a mental, motivational issue. In the midst of a genuine title challenge, I think it partly sorts itself out. But I do think some of our play breaks down due to a slight unease with the pattern. In my opinion, a lot of it is down to the fact our Goalkeeper, Left Sided Defender, Left Back, and Central Defensive Midfielder just aren't great technically. I have said elsewhere that the Goalkeeper is untouchable. I'd suggest that De Jong is as well (he's not top technical quality for his position, easily the top of the four but he does have his ooof moments). So in my opinion, Lescott and Kolarov should be worried, and Barry, the other link in this chain, simply has to excel on the ball, time after time.

These are the issues. Some of it comes down to a complicated game plan that doesn't entirely suit the players. But in defense of Mancini, he not only has to work with what he is given, he has to plan and build for the future. I wouldn't really expect him to tear up a game-plan if he believed it could work well enough for now, much better later (with a few different players). Marwood doesn't miss an opportunity to impress his control over the makeup of the squad upon us, so there you have it. It's a real world situation. Quite rightly, no-one is giving up their corner, they are all doing their best to make the compromise work. But something has to give sooner or later. I just don't see how we can win the CL with the basic problem of 4/5 non-technical players in a highly technical system. Two, maybe. And I don't see how a significantly less-technical system is ever going to win the CL.

Completely agree, top post.

I've accepted that Micah will probably not be the greatest technical player going forward. He is too useful physically to not play. But the left side is another matter. Lescott is settling in but we could use a player like Vertonghen to crack open clubs who sit back and defend (Lescott isn't helpful in these games.) A LB who can get forward would help. Someone like Nasri in Barry's position against the Evertons and Arsenals of the PL would also help.

Like you said, we really need to improve in these areas. Other top clubs have technically gifted players in these positions who can support the attack-minded players.
 

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