How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

It's been interesting listening to the government blaming the French for the queues in Dover. It's their 'revenge' for us leaving the EU, though no explanation as to how us leaving the EU has damaged them so irrepairably is ever forthcoming.

We voted leave in 2016, and France, Belgium and The Netherlands have invested in the infrastucture at their port facilities and engaged and trained more staff to help smooth the flow of traffic as it was obvious to them those improvements would be needed.

In the UK, we've done nothing, other than build a lorry park outside Ashford. The government refused funding to Dover Ports Authority so they could improve their facilities. The French, realising we hadn't enough customs officers to meet demand because insufficient numbers had been trained in the UK, offered to send us some of theirs, but the goverment turned their kind offer down.

We now have typical deflection from our government. A complete inability to plan ahead and forestall a problem they had been warned about for years, and it's not their fault. It's the French.

Maybe one day the people of this country will wake up and realise nobody in Europe cares we have left the EU. They don't need us, they are not missing our money, and they have no reason to avenge us.

It's a lack of understanding by our government of what brexit means that has caused the delays, not some fanciful paranoid notion of revenge by a bloc that is probably grateful we have left.
 
Vic said:
I don't see anything as deliberate - it's EU holidaymakers and lorry drivers affected too - but I have no idea why anyone would expect France or other EU countries to spend a lot of money to make things easy. Brexit was not their choice.
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I guess we’re into the realm of semantics, but deciding not to deploy even further resources to ease a problem that was not of their creation has a degree of intent which renders it deliberate - but as others, and you, have pointed out, why should they?

I actually find this finger pointing at the French to be truly reprehensible. They are merely bit part players in the wholly predictable farce that is unfolding before our eyes.

Own your fucking decisions. Own the fact that we’re a laughing stick as a nation. Own the fact that hubris, vanity and a lack of understanding how the modern world works have brought us to this point - and it’s going to continue to get worse.
 
bluethrunthru said:
UK chemicals don't like it

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The red tape argument was one that made me the most angry, around the time of the referendum, as it was obvious that in terms of our trading relationships with our closest neighbours, it was bound to increase significantly not decrease. No other possible outcome could withstand any objective scrutiny.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I guess we’re into the realm of semantics, but deciding not to deploy even further resources to ease a problem that was not of their creation has a degree of intent which renders it deliberate - but as others, and you, have pointed out, why should they?

I actually find this finger pointing at the French to be truly reprehensible. They are merely bit part players in the wholly predictable farce that is unfolding before our eyes.

Own your fucking decisions. Own the fact that we’re a laughing stick as a nation. Own the fact that hubris, vanity and a lack of understanding how the modern world works have brought us to this point - and it’s going to continue to get worse.
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I agree with the sentiment of your post although the French did offer more resources and were turned down by the U.K. government who in return blamed them for the delays.
 
NPBlue said:
It's been interesting listening to the government blaming the French for the queues in Dover. It's their 'revenge' for us leaving the EU, though no explanation as to how us leaving the EU has damaged them so irrepairably is ever forthcoming.

We voted leave in 2016, and France, Belgium and The Netherlands have invested in the infrastucture at their port facilities and engaged and trained more staff to help smooth the flow of traffic as it was obvious to them those improvements would be needed.

In the UK, we've done nothing, other than build a lorry park outside Ashford. The government refused funding to Dover Ports Authority so they could improve their facilities. The French, realising we hadn't enough customs officers to meet demand because insufficient numbers had been trained in the UK, offered to send us some of theirs, but the goverment turned their kind offer down.

We now have typical deflection from our government. A complete inability to plan ahead and forestall a problem they had been warned about for years, and it's not their fault. It's the French.

Maybe one day the people of this country will wake up and realise nobody in Europe cares we have left the EU. They don't need us, they are not missing our money, and they have no reason to avenge us.

It's a lack of understanding by our government of what brexit means that has caused the delays, not some fanciful paranoid notion of revenge by a bloc that is probably grateful we have left.
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It was always planned this way to do nothing and expect everyone else to pick up the pieces. When you have a rabid right press promoting the type of jingosim and gaslighting the public about this on a daily basis its not hard to see how they get away with it.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I see the usual suspects banging the drum for brexit are conspicuous by their absence from this thread. We warned you for two years all this would happen - own it you *****!
I'm going to trawl the old brexit threads and start a list of them, they should be held to account and made to justify their mess.
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You're a proper sad ****.
 
bluethrunthru said:
As for Dover I have noticed an interesting change in language - remember also the head of the Port of Dover is a staunch pro-Leaver.

Friday and Saturday were a fiasco which they felt could only be explained away by blaming the French. When that was refuted and proved incorrect there was a bit of fucking about and things started to get back into some sort of order the Head of the Port of Dover started claiming everything was "back to normal" and this is the important bit "within the Port of Dover facility" and he went on to rightly stress that he has no jurisdiction over what happens on the roads outside. That was jumped on by the Govt and Tory pundits that all was now well. There are reports overnight of 21 hour delays to get into the Port of Dover facility.

The Govt today are pointing out - rightly - we were never in the Schengen Group of countries and that there was also a requirement to show passports to enter EU countries. However that was a cursory wave of the passport and the delays are caused by the necessary checks and stamping of passports to prove dates in and out of the EU - something that the Govt itself insisted on in negotiations but seem to keep forgetting to mention - which inevitably takes longer. They are also avoiding mention that prior to Dover the news stories were full of the problems at airports. These are now off the front page for fear of highlighting the two issues which can then be conjoined. The fact is that by trying to play the blame game they are highlighting all the lies - Johnson NEVER got Brexit done and we have NOT taken back control. All this talk of punishment for us is bollocks - if they wanted to punish us just don't man any border posts keep the barriers down agitate the French Border Agents Union and get them to strike and it would show how little control taking back control has won us.

The only bit we now seem to have in control is the short drive from the entrance to the Port of Dover to the border posts which they have got down to one hour. Outside in Kent it remains chaos and at our insistence the process of leaving the country is greatly slowed down.
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No queues at Portsmouth, Plymouth, Felixstowe, etc., etc..
 
denislawsbackheel said:
No queues at Portsmouth, Plymouth, Felixstowe, etc., etc..
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Yeah but I don't think they are geared up for huge increases in freight traffic plus there is the cost. Portsmouth and Plymouth routes don't go to Calais and take longer to cross - there are some lines that only do 2 crossings per day plus - the big one - the whole infrastructure for import/export of goods and holiday traffic to Europe in this country revolves around Dover. Why? Shortest therefore cheapest routes. Many operators so many sailings today and also thats why they built the Euro tunnel entrance in Kent. To transfer to other routes risks the long term viability of Dover and the Channel Tunnel - will require huge investment in infrastructure here in the UK and also by the French in France and their buy in to route changes.
 
Worse than the vote to leave that myself and 17 million others wrongly made is the doubling down of politicians who can see it’s a shit show and despite that fact are seemingly even more determined never to go back.

Tories I get bit to hear Starmer and Labour say it is a mind fuck.
 
blueinsa said:
Worse than the vote to leave that myself and 17 million others wrongly made is the doubling down of politicians who can see it’s a shit show and despite that fact are seemingly even more determined never to go back.

Tories I get bit to hear Starmer and Labour say it is a mind fuck.
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I wonder what the actual thing is that tips the balance and politicians start suggesting reentering the single market.
 
blueinsa said:
Worse than the vote to leave that myself and 17 million others wrongly made is the doubling down of politicians who can see it’s a shit show and despite that fact are seemingly even more determined never to go back.

Tories I get bit to hear Starmer and Labour say it is a mind fuck.
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I am somewhat disappointed that Starmer has publicly ruled out re-joining the Single Market. I assume this is to head off all the accusations of "Rejoiner plots" etc that can be found regularly in the Express and Mail. The problem is that those accusations have not gone away and Starmer has tied himself into a corner by going public on this issue. I think it was a mistake. By being ambiguous at this stage wouldn't have cost much now but would have given him options later. I suspect more people would rather re-joining the SM was an option than would want to rule it out indefinitely, but I suspect he's got his eye on the red wall and has made the judgment that Labour will win more of those seats in spite of more people being pissed off with that policy elsewhere.
 
blueinsa said:
Worse than the vote to leave that myself and 17 million others wrongly made is the doubling down of politicians who can see it’s a shit show and despite that fact are seemingly even more determined never to go back.

Tories I get bit to hear Starmer and Labour say it is a mind fuck
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The current strategy seems to be imitating Tory behaviours, try to appeal to a press that will only support them if it looks like the Tories will get decimated and there might be a coalition type government.
By then closing any route back into a reasonable situation with the EU (SM or CU) he presumes that people are very one dimensional in how they vote and that it will somehow win back their old voters. Of course, even if such a cowardly position did do that, and it won’t, he will lose all his Metropolitan areas to the Liberal Democrats and thus be no farther forward.
He has also seemingly turned his back on any thoughts of nationalisation and many of his policies suggest he could actually be one of their leadership hopefuls, he’s so ‘safe’. He seems to want to be the ‘honest Tory in the room’.

He’s obviously seen a focus group that suggests all the ‘red wall’ voters are all exactly the same, and all voted for Brexit and the Tories for the same reason and won’t vote Labour again unless…..

He needs to connect back to what the point of Labour is, because, if it’s naked self interest, the continuation of politics as it is and running a party with no soul and no relevance, he’s never going to be as good at that as the next tory leader is, whoever they may be.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yeah but I don't think they are geared up for huge increases in freight traffic plus there is the cost. Portsmouth and Plymouth routes don't go to Calais and take longer to cross - there are some lines that only do 2 crossings per day plus - the big one - the whole infrastructure for import/export of goods and holiday traffic to Europe in this country revolves around Dover. Why? Shortest therefore cheapest routes. Many operators so many sailings today and also thats why they built the Euro tunnel entrance in Kent. To transfer to other routes risks the long term viability of Dover and the Channel Tunnel - will require huge investment in infrastructure here in the UK and also by the French in France and their buy in to route changes.
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Any holiday makers heading to Brittany, western Normandy or anywhere west would be better off travelling from Portsmouth or Plymouth.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
Any holiday makers heading to Brittany, western Normandy or anywhere west would be better off travelling from Portsmouth or Plymouth.
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They probably do, but those routes - and Poole - have at most 5 sailings a day than the 50 at Dover. I think Plymouth only goes to Spain as well.
You'd even be better going on the Newhaven-Dieppe route.
 
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