Ice Hockey | Player arrested for manslaughter following death of Adam Johnson (P18)

Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
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Where to start with this load of old shite.

1st opinion: I haven't seen anyone claim that he meant to kill Johnson. Just that he tried to "leave one on him" and it went horribly wrong. I've also read the views of many professional ice hockey plays who say this looks to be the case.

2nd opinion: "JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES" aren't likely to come out and say he's tried to do him right in the middle of a police investigation and typing in capitals doesn't strengthen your point. They'll have been advised not to say anything that could prejudice the case. Not all ice hockey fans are of the same opinion. I'm an ice hockey fan - do you know my opinion? Those who were there means nothing as I pointed out yesterday. They had one view of the incident - from their seat in the arena and possibly behind the plexi-glass. Once they've seen a replay on twitter, they've had the same look at the incident as anyone who wasn't there.

"Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc." - yes, it's quite evident that he is going off the clip of the incident.

"But off the rink is an absolute gent." - what has this got to do with anything? The incident didn't happen off the rink, where you've conceded he has a reputation.
 
Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by 'meant it', just for clarity?
 
Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
Click to expand...
To me he could have got 'nudged' and thought 'fuck it I'm having him' as he flew through the air...ala Keane would do.
 
Cellarite said:
Where to start with this load of old shite.

1st opinion: I haven't seen anyone claim that he meant to kill Johnson. Just that he tried to "leave one on him" and it went horribly wrong. I've also read the views of many professional ice hockey plays who say this looks to be the case.

2nd opinion: "JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES" aren't likely to come out and say he's tried to do him right in the middle of a police investigation and typing in capitals doesn't strengthen your point. They'll have been advised not to say anything that could prejudice the case. Not all ice hockey fans are of the same opinion. I'm an ice hockey fan - do you know my opinion? Those who were there means nothing as I pointed out yesterday. They had one view of the incident - from their seat in the arena and possibly behind the plexi-glass. Once they've seen a replay on twitter, they've had the same look at the incident as anyone who wasn't there.

"Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc." - yes, it's quite evident that he is going off the clip of the incident.

"But off the rink is an absolute gent." - what has this got to do with anything? The incident didn't happen off the rink, where you've conceded he has a reputation.
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Wow, talk about getting massively defensive over someone else's opinion that differs from yours. I've seen the incident and read many different views all over the world.

1st Opinion: People are saying he should be locked up for murder. That means they believe he intended to kill him which is absolute bollocks.

2nd opinion: Why do you think that? If my mate was killed and I thought someone had done it out of negligence and tried to hurt him I'd be coming out and saying so. Or just saying nothing as opposed to coming out and defending him. As you say they'd have been advised not to say anything, but they have actually jumped to Petgraves defence.

As a Hockey fan you'll know that when players are skating at speed and lose balance and fall forward your skates can go up in the air won't you? Which is what it looked like to me. Like I said this has happened before, although the lad didn't die.

We can revisit this when he's found not guilty in a court of law. Which I'm confident will happen.
 
Coatigan said:
What do you mean by 'meant it', just for clarity?
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It depends. There are some folk who genuinely think it's murder. But most folk realise that at worst he meant to hit the lad hard even with his foot etc. Which doesn't mean he wanted to actually hurt him. I suppose the football equivalent would be nudging someone into the hoardings. You want to leave it in a bit, but would you want them to fall over the hoarding and break a bone or even neck? Doubt it!
 
Nethermoor said:
Wow, talk about getting massively defensive over someone else's opinion that differs from yours. I've seen the incident and read many different views all over the world.

1st Opinion: People are saying he should be locked up for murder. That means they believe he intended to kill him which is absolute bollocks.

2nd opinion: Why do you think that? If my mate was killed and I thought someone had done it out of negligence and tried to hurt him I'd be coming out and saying so. Or just saying nothing as opposed to coming out and defending him. As you say they'd have been advised not to say anything, but they have actually jumped to Petgraves defence.

As a Hockey fan you'll know that when players are skating at speed and lose balance and fall forward your skates can go up in the air won't you? Which is what it looked like to me. Like I said this has happened before, although the lad didn't die.

We can revisit this when he's found not guilty in a court of law. Which I'm confident will happen.
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He has to be charged first. That’s not a given.

I think I tend to agree more with what you've written than the counter argument, but it’s not binary.

The fact it’s happened playing a contact sport muddies the waters somewhat. Proof of intent is impossible unless Petgrave tells the police. Even then, it might just be that he’s decided to impede his opponent to stop him scoring.

It‘s an interesting legal case born out of a tragic accident.
 
Nethermoor said:
It depends. There are some folk who genuinely think it's murder. But most folk realise that at worst he meant to hit the lad hard even with his foot etc. Which doesn't mean he wanted to actually hurt him. I suppose the football equivalent would be nudging someone into the hoardings. You want to leave it in a bit, but would you want them to fall over the hoarding and break a bone or even neck? Doubt it!
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I guess the equivalent would be what Rudiger did to KDB in the CL final, but instead of fracturing his cheekbone, KDB had died.

There’s intent to “do him”, but how does that translate in law?
 
Nethermoor said:
It depends. There are some folk who genuinely think it's murder. But most folk realise that at worst he meant to hit the lad hard even with his foot etc. Which doesn't mean he wanted to actually hurt him. I suppose the football equivalent would be nudging someone into the hoardings. You want to leave it in a bit, but would you want them to fall over the hoarding and break a bone or even neck? Doubt it!
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then the two things you claim earlier can co-exist.
 
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