Ice Hockey | Player arrested for manslaughter following death of Adam Johnson (P18)

Cellarite said:
That's fair enough. I can think of arguments either way. I was on the very back row of the away end at Newcastle in the FA Cup when Keegan was in charge. I reckon I saw the patterns of play and formations developing better than anyone watching on tv. Then again, when Yaya Toure was sent off in the Champions League (I think against CSKA), a lot of people (myself included) around me in the stadium wondered what he'd been sent off for and were calling the referee incompetent and corrupt. Then I got home, switched BT sports on and saw Yaya deck the opposing player.

The person you spoke to about the ice hockey had one view of the incident, from his seat in the arena, with plexi-glass between him and the incident. You don't have to be a regular attendee at ice hockey to know that it is a fast game. Does he skate or play ice-hockey himself? Did he give his thoughts on why the player's booted foot was at least 4 foot off the ice?
Click to expand...
His reasoning for it being a freak accident was that he was simply nudged by another player around the waist/hip area. That contact sent him way off balance and into a kind of spin was his opinion.

I questioned it by suggesting that it looked really suspect as his leg was so high. He said that the clips of the incident going about with slow motion don't do him any favours but the reality of the situation is that it happened at such high speed and that he really wasn't in any control after the nudge.

I've no clue personally and haven't took what he's said as case closed. I suspect that the only person who really knows is the bloke that's been arrested. So we'll wait and see what comes of that.
 
grunge said:
In terms of safety rules by the league any raised leg is a no no. For the reason you mention.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I’m not an expert by any stretch. Just trying to piece it together.

The bloke sounds like a Souness type player.

It’ll be interesting to see how the process plays out.

Are neck guards available? If not, someone should be patenting one.
 
grunge said:
Kicks in Ice hockey are a major no no. its instant ban for x number of matches territory to use a foot.
Click to expand...

There you have it then. That could well be what it ultimately comes down to.
 
bluealf said:
There is also another clip of the same player doing a very similar move on another player in a different game, that adds another level to the thought that it was his intention to foul that player, I hope he lives with the consequences of his actions.
Also the classy fans gave that player a rousing applause in the last game he played in support of him.

Also poor imo
Click to expand...

Re the fans, most would probably be going off the quite reasonable presumption that it was a horrible thing for him too, and that he might have had a tough time dealing with it. I would imagine the support is for that, and his emotional state rather than 'taking sides' in any of it. Whether it can be seen as insensitive is there, but I would like to think there was no malice in it.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Thanks. I’m not an expert by any stretch. Just trying to piece it together.

The bloke sounds like a Souness type player.

It’ll be interesting to see how the process plays out.

Are neck guards available? If not, someone should be patenting one.
Click to expand...

yep. Lower leagues are making them mandatory. EIHL made the advisory but the coroner has advised making them mandatory too.
 
grunge said:
In terms of safety rules by the league any raised leg is a no no. For the reason you mention.
Click to expand...

Which makes sense. But is it still not part of the game, in the sense it happens and there is a punishment for it? In a similar way that if a football player headbutts another on the pitch, he gets a red card and ban, rather than charged with assault. Obvious difference sharp skates of course, I get that.
 
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
 
Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
Click to expand...
Then he will get off with the charges then and everyone can move on. Right?
 
Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
Click to expand...
Where to start with this load of old shite.

1st opinion: I haven't seen anyone claim that he meant to kill Johnson. Just that he tried to "leave one on him" and it went horribly wrong. I've also read the views of many professional ice hockey plays who say this looks to be the case.

2nd opinion: "JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES" aren't likely to come out and say he's tried to do him right in the middle of a police investigation and typing in capitals doesn't strengthen your point. They'll have been advised not to say anything that could prejudice the case. Not all ice hockey fans are of the same opinion. I'm an ice hockey fan - do you know my opinion? Those who were there means nothing as I pointed out yesterday. They had one view of the incident - from their seat in the arena and possibly behind the plexi-glass. Once they've seen a replay on twitter, they've had the same look at the incident as anyone who wasn't there.

"Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc." - yes, it's quite evident that he is going off the clip of the incident.

"But off the rink is an absolute gent." - what has this got to do with anything? The incident didn't happen off the rink, where you've conceded he has a reputation.
 
Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by 'meant it', just for clarity?
 
Nethermoor said:
I've seen two lots of opinions about this and it's come to this:

1st opinion: The guy obviously meant it and should be charged. This opinion is by anyone who knows nothing about Ice Hockey. A game played at speed.

2nd Opinion: Freak accident. An opinion taken even by JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES at the Panthers. All ICe Hockey fans who watch the game and those who were there have said it was an accident.

Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc. But off the rink is an absolute gent according to those in and around the EIHL.

My conclusion is it was an accident and if you've never played or watched Ice Hockey then you're guessing with little info. This has happened a few times. Not often, but has happened.
Click to expand...
To me he could have got 'nudged' and thought 'fuck it I'm having him' as he flew through the air...ala Keane would do.
 
Cellarite said:
Where to start with this load of old shite.

1st opinion: I haven't seen anyone claim that he meant to kill Johnson. Just that he tried to "leave one on him" and it went horribly wrong. I've also read the views of many professional ice hockey plays who say this looks to be the case.

2nd opinion: "JOHNSON'S TEAM MATES" aren't likely to come out and say he's tried to do him right in the middle of a police investigation and typing in capitals doesn't strengthen your point. They'll have been advised not to say anything that could prejudice the case. Not all ice hockey fans are of the same opinion. I'm an ice hockey fan - do you know my opinion? Those who were there means nothing as I pointed out yesterday. They had one view of the incident - from their seat in the arena and possibly behind the plexi-glass. Once they've seen a replay on twitter, they've had the same look at the incident as anyone who wasn't there.

"Petgrave plays close to the bone and is a Keane type player, hard hitting etc." - yes, it's quite evident that he is going off the clip of the incident.

"But off the rink is an absolute gent." - what has this got to do with anything? The incident didn't happen off the rink, where you've conceded he has a reputation.
Click to expand...
Wow, talk about getting massively defensive over someone else's opinion that differs from yours. I've seen the incident and read many different views all over the world.

1st Opinion: People are saying he should be locked up for murder. That means they believe he intended to kill him which is absolute bollocks.

2nd opinion: Why do you think that? If my mate was killed and I thought someone had done it out of negligence and tried to hurt him I'd be coming out and saying so. Or just saying nothing as opposed to coming out and defending him. As you say they'd have been advised not to say anything, but they have actually jumped to Petgraves defence.

As a Hockey fan you'll know that when players are skating at speed and lose balance and fall forward your skates can go up in the air won't you? Which is what it looked like to me. Like I said this has happened before, although the lad didn't die.

We can revisit this when he's found not guilty in a court of law. Which I'm confident will happen.
 
Coatigan said:
What do you mean by 'meant it', just for clarity?
Click to expand...
It depends. There are some folk who genuinely think it's murder. But most folk realise that at worst he meant to hit the lad hard even with his foot etc. Which doesn't mean he wanted to actually hurt him. I suppose the football equivalent would be nudging someone into the hoardings. You want to leave it in a bit, but would you want them to fall over the hoarding and break a bone or even neck? Doubt it!
 
Nethermoor said:
Wow, talk about getting massively defensive over someone else's opinion that differs from yours. I've seen the incident and read many different views all over the world.

1st Opinion: People are saying he should be locked up for murder. That means they believe he intended to kill him which is absolute bollocks.

2nd opinion: Why do you think that? If my mate was killed and I thought someone had done it out of negligence and tried to hurt him I'd be coming out and saying so. Or just saying nothing as opposed to coming out and defending him. As you say they'd have been advised not to say anything, but they have actually jumped to Petgraves defence.

As a Hockey fan you'll know that when players are skating at speed and lose balance and fall forward your skates can go up in the air won't you? Which is what it looked like to me. Like I said this has happened before, although the lad didn't die.

We can revisit this when he's found not guilty in a court of law. Which I'm confident will happen.
Click to expand...
He has to be charged first. That’s not a given.

I think I tend to agree more with what you've written than the counter argument, but it’s not binary.

The fact it’s happened playing a contact sport muddies the waters somewhat. Proof of intent is impossible unless Petgrave tells the police. Even then, it might just be that he’s decided to impede his opponent to stop him scoring.

It‘s an interesting legal case born out of a tragic accident.
 
Nethermoor said:
It depends. There are some folk who genuinely think it's murder. But most folk realise that at worst he meant to hit the lad hard even with his foot etc. Which doesn't mean he wanted to actually hurt him. I suppose the football equivalent would be nudging someone into the hoardings. You want to leave it in a bit, but would you want them to fall over the hoarding and break a bone or even neck? Doubt it!
Click to expand...
I guess the equivalent would be what Rudiger did to KDB in the CL final, but instead of fracturing his cheekbone, KDB had died.

There’s intent to “do him”, but how does that translate in law?
 
Nethermoor said:
It depends. There are some folk who genuinely think it's murder. But most folk realise that at worst he meant to hit the lad hard even with his foot etc. Which doesn't mean he wanted to actually hurt him. I suppose the football equivalent would be nudging someone into the hoardings. You want to leave it in a bit, but would you want them to fall over the hoarding and break a bone or even neck? Doubt it!
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then the two things you claim earlier can co-exist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top