Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

[Ntini77]

I think you're right about that being our strongest team and preferred formation, although I have doubts about Kolo and wouldn't be surprised to see Lescott or even Boyata replace him. Boateng looks more of a centre half to me and Ricahrds was excellent on Sunday..

I think Tevez will sit slightly deeper than Balo too. But formation wise that's my guess.

Why do you have doubts about Kolo ?

Him & Komps is easily our best partnership.

 

[Ricster]

Noticed last night and against Wolves that Mancini's tactics have been sussed and are quite simple to defend.

Wolves last weekend set up with a drifting midfield like Poznan did last night. Because of the slow tempo we play at it gives the opposition time to get back into shape to their defensive formation. The opposition midfield drift from left to right and are allowed to do this because of our slow build up play, to push the play backwards they use an umbrella effect when the ball is out on the wing to force the ball backwards to our holding midfielder or centre back's. Which allows the opposition to get ready for the next attack.

Very simple from the opposition but very effective, which is why we start to go through the middle and the play gets stifled and congested.

The tempo we play at is our main problem, to many players wanting 2 or 3 touches of the ball before we look for a pass.

 

[jimbo101]

Not sure about that.
Against Wolves & Poznan we dominated for the opening 20/25 mins, then stopped playing.
Both were then able to be very direct & run at us.

I don't think it's a coincidence that with the return of Carlos, NDJ & Kolo we won & kept a clean sheet.
That's a virtual spine been missing.
Take Rooney, Fletcher & Vidic out of utd, or Drogba, Lampard & Terry out of Chelsea & you'll see them not perform at their best.

You can lose 1 at a time & get by, but to lose 3 of your most influential players at the same time would stretch the best of them.

Goes to show how important these players are to us.

 

[Project]

Not one player who started at Poznan did so yesterday (PZ aside and even that was a makeshift position). The game holds no weight as to the viability of Mancini's 433, as it was entirely different personnel.

Yesterday we played West Brom off the park.

 

[simon23]

you are right project

we played west brom off the park.....it was the best all around attacking display ive seen since RM took the job......i hope he continue to now play with the two attackers whether its tev and balo, ade and tev or even balo and ade

 

[1.618034]

Good article by Jonathan Wilson in The Guardian about why Tevez is so important to us....


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/nov/09/carlos-tevez-city-the-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... e-question</a>

The Question: Why is Carlos Tevez so vital to Manchester City?

His goals help, but it is more than just that – the Argentinian is the ultimate team man, perfect for the central role in City's 4-3-3

One of Carlos Tevez's great strengths is his selflessness, his willingness to vacate central positions to create space for others.

Manchester City with Carlos Tevez and Manchester City without Carlos Tevez are two different teams. Since Roberto Mancini took over shortly before Christmas last year, City have played 32 games in which Tevez has been on the field for at least 45 minutes, and 11 in which he has not. Of the games he has played, City have won 20, drawn five and lost seven; in games he hasn't, they have won three, drawn four and lost four. The difference becomes even more startling when you consider that two of those wins without him were home ties in the Europa League. So why is Tevez vital to City? His goals help, of course – 24 from open play plus seven penalties since Mancini took over – but it is more than just that; he is perfect for the central role in the Italian's 4-3-3 system.

The Argentinian's final season at Manchester United was bizarrely underrated, rooted largely in the obsession with goal stats. Because he managed only five league goals, he was deemed somehow a failure. "You want more than that for £25m," became a common and infuriating refrain. That season, Cristiano Ronaldo scored 18 league goals, Wayne Rooney 12, Dimitar Berbatov nine; United weren't exactly lacking in potency. Tevez often played wide or deep, and his role became far more about creating than scoring goals. One of his great strengths, in fact, was his selflessness, his willingness to vacate central positions to create space for others, particularly Ronaldo, to score.

The contrast with Ronaldo, in fact, is telling: on Sunday against Atlético Madrid, he once again showed his astonishing self-obsession, shooting from increasingly preposterous positions just because he hadn't scored, as though his personal battle with Lionel Messi was more important than making sure of a Real Madrid win, or improving their goal difference. Tevez's instinct is to the team, and it was notable that after Mario Balotelli had put City ahead against West Bromwich Albion, his first reaction was to turn to Tevez and thank him for the cross; he knew that Tevez could have turned and thrashed the ball at goal, and appreciated the intelligence that led him instead to pull a cross along the six-yard box.

Making Tevez captain was a controversial move by Mancini, given his lack of English and their uneasy relationship, but on an emotional level it makes total sense. Tevez has made huge amounts of money from football, but for a team that could easily become a bunch of disparate mercenaries – if Stephen Ireland is to be believed, it has already gone that way – it is probably as well to have a captain who, in a football sense at least, so obviously cares about winning above all else.

Tevez's leadership, though, is also tactical. His energy and willingness to close opposing defenders down begins the press; he is both an inspiration, his example leading others to greater effort, but also, as Johan Neeskens was for Holland, the initiator. Once Tevez goes (and City don't operate a full-press), the rest follow.

Perhaps most important, though, is his movement. At United, Tevez seemed to suffer from reverse-Berbatov syndrome, his efforts derided as covering for his occasional heaviness of touch, as though the whole running-about thing were a smokescreen. Traditionalists wanted him, as a forward, to spend more time in the box. But it is precisely that willingness to come deep or pull wide that makes him such an asset to City.

When Emmanuel Adebayor plays, City have an aerial option; they can thump the ball long and rely on him to hold the ball up. But when he is there, they can become static, which is a particular problem given the make-up of their midfield. The first-choice trio, which played at West Brom on Sunday, has Nigel de Jong the deepest lying, with Gareth Barry and, particularly, Yaya Touré, given some licence to push forward. Barry, of course, has played as a left-sided midfielder, and can cross a ball. At Beveren, Metalurh Donetsk and Olympiakos, and to an extent Monaco, Touré was more of a box-to-box player than he became at Barcelona, but that does not make him an attacking midfielder. Generally, it is a midfielder built on muscle and energy rather than finesse.

In Italy in the late 90s, it was common for sides to play what was known as "a broken team" with seven defensive players and three attacking and very little in between, something that made the playmaking role both vital and incredibly difficult. Alberto Zaccheroni's scudetto-winning Milan of 1998-99, for instance, played a 3-4-3 that featured a front two of George Weah and Oliver Bierhoff, with Leonardo just behind. Occasionally Thomas Helveg or Christian Ziege would get forward from wing-back to support, but the two central midfielders, Demetrio Albertini and Massimo Ambrosini, were largely defensive. At Juventus, similarly, Zinedine Zidane, Alessandro Del Piero and Filippo Inzaghi were backed up by the industry of Edgar Davids, Didier Deschamps, Angelo Di Livio and Antonio Conte.

With a more systematised approach – whether attacking or defensive – taking over in the past decade, there was a move away from the broken team, but the example of Holland and, to a lesser extent, Argentina and Germany at the World Cup suggested it was returning. Intriguingly, the trend has coincided with the apparent rebirth of the playmaker – Mesut Ozil, Wesley Sneijder, Lionel Messi (as Argentina used him) – both, perhaps, products of the liberalised offside law. That is understandable at international level, given the lack of time available to drill players into a system; at club level the approach feels a little rudimentary.

Tevez, though, makes it work, as he almost defines the role of the false nine. His movement prevents the team breaking up, providing a link with the midfield, and as he drops deep, so he can interact with Touré or Barry. That is not natural to Adebayor – very much a real nine – and the difference in their approach is seen here. Adebayor did drop deep and pull wide, but far less than Tevez, and against Wolves he attempted only just over half the number of passes Tevez did against West Brom.

Tevez's movement also encourages those around him to move. Mancini has an array of forwards capable of playing wide: David Silva, Mario Balotelli, James Milner, Adam Johnson, and Shaun Wright-Phillips, but City look at their most effective when at least one of them is inverted and able to cut inside into the space vacated by Tevez, as Balotelli did to great effect on Sunday.

The theory is simple: the back four defends with only occasional forays from the full-backs; the three midfielders dominate possession, and if they can't, they sit deep to provide an extra layer of defensive cover; and a fluid front three tries to turn the possession into chances and goals. Tevez, though, adds something extra, linking the two parts of the team, and making the whole more fluent. He scores goals, but more important is that he lubricates the whole mechanism.

The trouble is we need someone else to be able to do it when he isn't available.

 

[okstate99]

Is it time for an update.. or should just wait to see who we bring and how they change our formation and tactics?

 

[Outrun]

Is it time for an update.. or should just wait to see who we bring and how they change our formation and tactics?

Certainly!

Re-reading this thread, it's fun to see how many of us got the tactics right. It's also fun to see how many of us got some parts wrong. I see I myself claimed Silva was not at all playing a wide left winger role on page 14, while it has been appareny over the season that he has, even though with a free role. Reading the OP, I'm pleased to see how much De Jong's creativity has evolved over season.

I was going to update this thread anyway after yesterday's match, because it was fun to see Milner in his role. I felt like Milner and Yaya now shared the same role. Over the season, it has seemed like De Jong has been DM, Barry DM/CM and Yaya AM. Yesterday, we seemed to play with De Jong as DM and Milner and Yaya as two CM's. It was more along the path of how Mancini played at Inter:
Zanetti - Cambiasso - Vieira. Two CMs who can cross the ball and play passes, while a DM (Cambiasso/De Jong) in the middle who clean up in front of the defense. (Keep in mind that at Inter, Vieira was much more of a box-to-box midfielder to compared to his aging version here)

Will be interesting to see how Mancini aim when buying players this summer. Will he keep up with the same formation or go with something else?

In my world we seem to lack some things:
*A good left back, or the hope of Kolarov finding a pair of balls this summer.
*A good crossing winger (IF we keep Dzeko) who can compete for places. I'm happy with Silva but Johnson needs a competitor for his spot, SWP isn't good enough in my view. (I expect either Tevez or Balotelli leaving)
*A really creative CM. And by creative, I mean REALLY creative. Must be someone good, otherwise I'm happy to continue playing Yaya - De Jong - Milner, with Barry as back-up.

Anyone got some other suggestions or comments?

 

[Dax777]

Bump! I want to read this thread tomorrow :)

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I would very much like us to adopt a 4-3-3 formation next year with a single holding Midfielder and 2 box to box
Midfielders. We can still play 4-2-3-1 for the very hard games awAy, and change to it to protect a lead. Bit for winnable games I think we should be setting up that way