Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[IcriedwhenTueartleft]

Yes, we have more points so far this season than we gained against the same teams last season but to ignore the way those points have been won may be foolhardy. We are not playing as well as we did last season, there is less fluidity in our play, we attack with less pace and we are not scaring teams like we did 12 months ago plus, and this is possibly the most concerning aspect, we are looking more vulnerable in defence. I suggest the latter point may be partly attributable to the new defensive coach referred to in the article in the Independant previously quoted.
No, players don't have to like a manager as some have alluded to here already but I tell you what, players at Chelsea by all accounts loved Jose and they were prepared to run through brick walls for him, to go that extra yard as they did at Inter when he took a group of perenial under-achievers to CL glory. Perhaps we are not getting that same level of over-commitment from our guys because of Roberto's slightly abrasive management style?
In my view, a manager who has been allowed to spend as much as RM has over the past few years and who has been able to bring in the quality of players that he has, and credit to him, should be looking to be up there in the top two most seasons and be able to mount a serious title challenge, particularly last season when general consensus of opinion was that it was a poor Utd team (relative to past Utd sides) and when Chelsea were imploding early doors.
I'd be far more impressed by RM's managerial capabilities had he taken the pile of poo we had in Stuart Pearce's last season to a league title rather than the expensively assembled group of stars we now have and which most competent managers, the type City can now attract, could have led to a title
I hope he stays at City but shows a bit more humility and cuts out the criticism of players, we get enough of that from the Press at large as it is without invoking it ourselves. It can't be doing internal morale any good. This season is obviously important for us and already, we are out of the CL (barring a great comeback), out of the Capital One cup and thus before October is over, we are having to rely on just the League and FA Cup (where we will no doubt field "weakened" sides early doors) for some glory. Not many City fans would have expected that position back in mid August.

 

[The Future's Blue]

You can be Jose and Slur Alex combined, you can't win nowt without taking the entire dressing room with them.

Players get managers the sack, always have.

Well, we'll just have to see if the players do; starting this evening.

Maybe not the best gauge. I would expect us to smash em.

Albeit, if we don't get maximum points, it might be best to give this place a swerve for a few days!

You see Tolm, that's the sort of statement that I find quite annoying, it's like media speak, such as Spencer did on TS yesterday.

Building us up as if little old Swansea will just step aside and allow us to walk the ball in. Then, when it turns out to be a cagey 1-0 the sniping comes out.

This is not a dig at you (and it's possibly not what you meant), it's something that I find people do more often than not when there is an angle to be gained. Sowing the seeds as they say.

I do expect us to win today, but to suggest we should be smashing Swansea, who sit comfortably in mid-table, is a little arrogant to say the least. Especially as they have only conceded 4 goals away from home this season. That's 1.3 goals per game and now we are expected to 'smash em'?

 

[SWP's back]

I can. Our league form was awful until the last two games. We've been putting out the wrong teams in the wrong formations and in patrticulat, the wrong midfields. Hence we've been getting dominated by inferior teams and getting out of jail.

Mancini has been terrible. Playing a back three which doesn't work. Playing yaya too deep. Changing systems three and four times in a game. Playing young players in tense games leading to errors. Playing a different back four every game. Withdrawing the best player on the park. Pissing off our good players. Exposing our flanks to good teams. Talking shit in the press.

He's made a load of mistakes this season. He needs to get it right and for our league run to lift the whole club. If you take Ajax out the equation, he had moved in the right direction recently to be fair to him: he's picking the right defenders and formation and not wasting yaya as much.

Swansea today is ideal. I expect a big win.

How do you explain that?

 

[Yaya_Tony]

RM'S problem is he is switching his defence to much. Instead of finding his strongest back 4 he keeps on switching every one around, this is not helping the defence at all. Yes I do know he kept on changing the fullbacks however when the chages were made it was both or none.

The sooner we pick a settled side the results will come. RM has got to get bak to what works for us which is 4-2-3-1. Our best game this season came when we played this formation and it also led to our 1st clean sheet of the season, so why RM can't see it I don't know.

However is it possible that RM is doing this to get back at Brian Marwood for delaying bringingin players and then not the players RM wanted on RM & bM know the answer to that question.

This is a myth. That best performance of the season so far had a completely different back 4 from the previous game. Continuity in the team will help a bit, but it isn't as key as is made out. They still train all week together too. In addition, it isn't possible to play the same team every game at the moment due to the fixtures, nor is it ever anyway thanks to injuries, suspensions, ACoN...

I can agree that 451 looks better on us than the 352 / 532 but can't fault the boss for wanting an alternative. That was his mistake on Wed, switching mid game, the way we set up looked good. The players didn't do the business.

You can't be serious that Mancini is for some reason doing it on purpose to prove a point to the board. Losing matches to make a point, it's just unfeasible.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I can. Our league form was awful until the last two games. We've been putting out the wrong teams in the wrong formations and in patrticulat, the wrong midfields. Hence we've been getting dominated by inferior teams and getting out of jail.

Mancini has been terrible. Playing a back three which doesn't work. Playing yaya too deep. Changing systems three and four times in a game. Playing young players in tense games leading to errors. Playing a different back four every game. Withdrawing the best player on the park. Pissing off our good players. Exposing our flanks to good teams. Talking shit in the press.

He's made a load of mistakes this season. He needs to get it right and for our league run to lift the whole club. If you take Ajax out the equation, he had moved in the right direction recently to be fair to him: he's picking the right defenders and formation and not wasting yaya as much.

Swansea today is ideal. I expect a big win.

How do you explain that?

I explained it in my previous post. He stuck to the 4231. He stopped using yaya deep. He stopped playing nastasic, Rodwell, Maicon, Garcia. He played our best back 4. He got us back doing what we are good at, and I want him to stick with this.

 

[skyblue_brother]

The problem is that the owners are asking themselves the same question. Mancini's position has not been in question before however this has now changed. I know i am going to get slaughtered for this but i am not a wum, you can see i've been on this site for many years and have never posted any itk before, but this is what i've heard from what i consider a very reliable source.

The name being discussed to replace mancini will surprise no-one but is Pep Guardiola. I am not saying mancini will get the sack tomorrow however he has lost the backing of the owners and his replacement is being discussed, he is living on borrowed time and unless things turn around very quickly he will have lots of free time on his hands very soon.

 

[CityCTID]

Interesting article from the independent, oh and there is mention of that man again...

Some discernible patterns of behaviour are becoming clear in Roberto Mancini, and they are always at their most visible when Manchester City have had a bad night.

One, used for the fourth time in Amsterdam late on Wednesday, is his vague claim that defeat was all his own fault, which is never backed up by an explanation and is increasingly obviously a device to obstruct a proper press conference discussion about what has just gone wrong.

Another is Mancini's trait of letting players have it, in the intense knot of media interviews which follow a game. It was Joe Hart's turn last month, when the goalkeeper's honesty about the defensive failings which saw a 2-1 lead sacrificed in the last five minutes at the Bernabeu provoked the manager's ire, 10 minutes later. "If anyone should criticise the team it should be me, not Joe Hart. I am the judge, not Joe Hart," Mancini said. The players – among whom Hart is the most popular figure of all – were less than impressed when they reached their seats for the flight home from Madrid and found Twitter awash with Mancini's barbed comments.

Hart has kept his counsel on the manager's words, of course, though a number of the players are understood to be less than impressed by this trend. There is a sense that Mancini's sharpest public words tend to be reserved for the players who will not kick up. Micah Richards knew how Hart felt that night on the Madrid runway because he's taken public criticism. So, too, has Gareth Barry and Adam Johnson, who has now taken his skills to Sunderland.

The names also reveal how the English contingent get more than their fair share of it from Mancini and on Wednesday night it was Joleon Lescott. Substituted six minutes after his mistake allowed Ajax their equaliser, the defender got some touchline Glasnost from the manager as he left the field. And if he checked Twitter on the Schipol runway, he'd have read the manager's not-so-veiled sarcasm. "It's my fault because I didn't tell him to jump," Mancini said of Lescott's error. The 30-year-old has learned to be phlegmatic about these things. He's known for months that Mancini has been eyeing a big-name defender to replace him – David Luiz and Fabricio Coloccini as well the advertised interest in Daniel Agger this summer. Then Matija Nastasic was hired and installed as first pick for the big games. Certainly, Lescott's season has had its imperfections, but this doesn't feel like terribly good management.

The detail is relevant to the analysis of why City are incapable in Europe while very capable across the course of a domestic season because it reveals why Mancini's players don't look like they'll run through walls for this boss. They have delivered two away wins out of seven for him on the Continent.

Mancini's experimentation is also a source of concern to the senior players, because Mancini really doesn't seem to know which personnel he wants and what his plan should be. Four systems in the course of one game - 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 3-3-4 – said it all in Amsterdam. While Ajax, like Borussia Dortmund three weeks earlier, were an organic unit aware of the task in hand, City's entire midfield and attacking lines were rotated when the side went 1-0 up – as if they could afford to fiddle. Barry offered a telling comparison of City and Ajax yesterday. "They played in the style they have played for many years, by keeping the ball. We are not sure at the moment what the problem [is]," he said.

The new, three-man defence underlines the influence of Mancini's new defensive coach Angelo Gregucci, his former assistant at Fiorentina, whose arrival this summer offered more evidence that the manager only really trusts the Italians. It also provided the need for an extra training-ground translator, because Gregucci doesn't speak English yet. The new formation has looked vulnerable before – at Anfield in August, where City went a goal behind and were very lucky to escape with a 2-2 draw. Is Mancini's persistence with it an attempt to cast himself as the tactical technician to match Jose Mourinho, the man who delivered Internazionale the European trophy which he could not? Perhaps. Publicly, Mancini has said little about the decision to abandon last year's fairly dependable back four, but Richards' suggestion that they haven't practised it that much made the use of it on Wednesday night a fairly remarkable gamble.

Success in Europe is actually about having a very definite plan and sticking to it, as the example of one of the Champions League's great over-achievers of modern times proves only too well. That man, Rafael Benitez, has said that European knock-out competition is about "the management of 180 minutes, the tactical preparation needed to overcome opponents expected to beat us" and he should know. Take a look again at the Liverpool side who beat Milan in the Champions League final in 2005, including Djimi Traoré, Harry Kewell and Milan Baros. You can't imagine Mancini fancying that lot. "We had to make the best use of what we had," is how Benitez has summed up that night in Istanbul and it is a salutary lesson to any manager hooked on spending for success. Mancini ought to know this. When his Inter side faced Liverpool in the Champions League last 16 in 2008, Benitez singled out centre-back Marco Materazzi as the weak link and repeatedly showed his players DVDs of an overlapping Maicon, now at City, being caught out of position. Materazzi, overwhelmed by Fernando Torres, was sent off in the first leg, his replacement Nicolas Burdisso got red in the second and Liverpool won the tie 3-0, leading Mancini to declare he was quitting after the 1-0 home defeat at San Siro. It was one of many difficult nights in a competition which has eluded and haunted him ever since defeat as a player with Sampdoria in the 1992 final, when he seriously lost it with the referee in the 1-0 defeat against Barcelona at Wembley. As his manager Vujadin Boskov put it afterwards, Mancini just "wasn't with it" on that occasion either.

The City manager will point to his club's failure to deliver the players they wanted in the transfer market, like Agger and Eden Hazard, if they are now eliminated. But the spirit which Frank de Boer engendered in a very young group of players on Wednesday night, each playing to restore the glories of Johan Cruyff and make history, suggests that it is time for Mancini to accept that less is more. Time to settle on a team, make a plan and stick to it.

Roberto Mancini began with the 4-2-3-1 formation he regularly uses in the Premier League. Joleon Lescott was favoured ahead of Matija Nastasic for the first time in Europe this season, while Micah Richards was recalled at right-back.

After Samir Nasri had put City ahead, Mancini opted to change to a more defensive 4-4-2 set-up. Yaya Touré was withdrawn to a more central role, with James Milner moved out on to the right wing. Sergio Aguero was moved up front.

Two Ajax goals either side of half-time changed the tie and Mancini tinkered again, taking off Joleon Lescott and adopting a 3-5-2 style. Aleksandr Kolarov played on the left wing, with Gaël Clichy and Micah Richards in a defensive three.

Johnson has now taken his skills[/i] to Sunderland!??? Really, drinking skills maybe

Shhh it's Rafa 'talk the talk' Benitez's half time report, LOL

The same Benitez who spent load of cash on mediocre at Liverpool? Who crumbled under the pressures and threw away a title!!! Whos Inter lost to Atlético Madrid UEFA Super and lost to supds in the Champions League!!! Slumped to 6th place in Serie A, (13) points behind the top!!

Made a mess and lasted only 5 months in the job before being sacked by Morrati & Inter.

"We had to make the best use of what we had," is how Benitez has summed up that night in Istanbu ....

BUT WHY MORATTI SACKED BENITEZ???

"Benitez told the European champions to back him with new signings or consider whether they wanted to keep him as coach, despite the side having won the treble only a few months earlier. Benítez's demands were dismissed out of hand by the Inter ownership, with Massimo Moratti refusing to comment Benítez's continued employment by the club, On 23 December, Benítez was sacked by Internazionale." ... Right, make the best use of what we had.

Whoever wrote this article should be arrested and banned immediately from taking part in any kind of football- related activity for life..

 

[Blue Hefner]

I would suggest that last minute winners V WBA and Fulham would suggest that the players aren't trying to get the manager sacked, also remember we scored at the death V Dortmund when everyone could have given up

Mancini has won the FA Cup and the league in the last 18 months, to suggest he gets the sack on the back of out Champions League results is ridiculous

We are novices in Europe, as a club and Europe is a very unforgiving place

Real Madrid haven't won it for 10yrs!!! In that time they've had managers with great reputations and great players, we've still got Kolarov and Lescott for fuck sakes, give it time!!

Ferguson has won it twice in 26yrs, Wenger has never won it and if I remember right they both have had some pretty bad results whilst the club was learning about Europe

 

[FanchesterCity]

This is no place for realism!

You should be ashamed of yourself posting sensible, realistic input to a madhouse!

You're spot on. We've come a long way, and there's a long way to go. There will be ups AND downs along the way... anybody expecting up up up all the way to the CL trophy are deluded.

We're a better team than Swansea, but we can only win if we play as a team. Anything less that 100% in this league (as with CL) will cost you. There are NO easy games, and we're now a scalp.

All credit to United all these years, they've been a scalp all this time, now it's our turn to learn to cope with it and possibly use it to our advantage. We must become merciless and uncompromising... we don't play for draws.

 

[The Future's Blue]

The problem is that the owners are asking themselves the same question. Mancini's position has not been in question before however this has now changed. I know i am going to get slaughtered for this but i am not a wum, you can see i've been on this site for many years and have never posted any itk before, but this is what i've heard from what i consider a very reliable source.

The name being discussed to replace mancini will surprise no-one but is Pep Guardiola. I am not saying mancini will get the sack tomorrow however he has lost the backing of the owners and his replacement is being discussed, he is living on borrowed time and unless things turn around very quickly he will have lots of free time on his hands very soon.

This is interesting and I have no idea why you'd think you'd get slaughtered. The only quesion I'd have is not who this person is but what business is he in?