Isco

[bluemonkey71]

Bibbyblue is either working for the club or on a serious wind up..

Or the local bookies! lol

What did Bibby say?

 

[Stoned Rose]

You can't post shit like this without explaining.
So basically what you are saying is that he is coming to City guaranteed and he has been learning English? oh and it will be concluded today??

I'm bookmarking this

Lost basically said yesterday that an ITK on another form (Blue Vibe I believe) had a text from an English city player saying they believed Isco was signing on Tuesday.

The info Lost gave was exciting but it got lost in the banter about him being a bit snobby that ensued.

By the way what has Bibby added to the mix this morning mate?

it is blue vibe, now back to the ironing ;)

Stop blagging mate, your missus told mine she's got you cutting the grass and doing the big shop today ;)

 

[charliebigspuds]

Say there are no more incomings and no more outgoings,
would people be happy that the current squad could compete
on all four fronts next season. I think yes.

I think we'd compete much better than last year.

In reality we have got 5 'new' players-

1. Fernandinho
2. Navas
3. Rodwell (should be fully fit and therefore we get to use the 'real' him)
4. Richards (back from injury and raring to go)
5. Aguero (back to fitness, after having a very stop-start season last year).

Pellegrini will also use the squad differently / better. For example I dont think he will use Garcia and Kolarov in the stubborn way Mancini did.

Our squad today is imho the best in the league. It just needs using properly.

agree with most but this is never going to happen though is it

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

No, not really.

Anyone in sales knows that you have to find your own unique USP's - unique sales proposition. What is it that differentiates you from your competitors. And you try to move the goalposts so that your potential buyer sees more value in these things than in other things that your competitor has.

Then there's another old saying in sales; "there's only 2 reasons for losing a sale - either you were outsold, or you should not have been bidding in the first place". Harsh, but true.

All of the above is relevant to the Isco saga.

Of course we can't match the history of Real Madrid, but we shouldn't try to. We have a different proposition. How many players - out of the countless hundreds who have played in title winning teams at Real are truly remembered? A handful. Winning is a tradition at Madrid, not an exception. If you want to go to a team, be brilliant and be ignored and forgotten there is no better place to go.

On the other hand, our "project" turning an ugly duckling CIty into a majestic swan City, on a par with Real, Barca, Bayern etc, dominating our domestic league and winning CL trophies too, is a fabulous prospect for the early joiners. To be worshipped by the fans, and by new fans all over the world. And to move to a new city, a new country, England - capital of the civilised world, at age 18. What a prospect. How many 18 year old cannot be sold on the opportunity to see the world, to experience life in other countries? Staying home is for old men.

Silva, Aguero, Navas - they have all seen this opportunity and decided to grab it with both hands.

The fact that we could not persuade Isco means we were outsold, or we should not have been persuing him in the first place. What on earth can Madrid and Zidane have possibly told him that he did not know already??? Nothing. If all they had to do was pick up the phone and he's there's we shouldn't have been chasing him, wasting our time and effort.

I don't think that analogy really works, we do have USP's and Ferran and Txiki are fully integrated into how the club is being run and the direction of the club and what we can offer. The market for footballers, for people as tradeable commodities is a lot different to selling inanimate objects. You have to analyse the person's feelings and thought patterns and judge whether it's going to work. It seemed encouraging until Madrid came in, and they have seemingly secured the deal with a great deal of effort by playing on the natural advantage(which does matter when dealing with humans) of their global appeal and their location relative to the player. We can counter that with guaranteed first team football and big status here but only if Madrid don't make the huge effort to persuade him they will match that, and ultimately if he succeeds at Madrid he will become a bigger star especially at home than he ever will do here, that's the way it goes. Therefore our meaningful sales advantage has gone, and the only reason we've been "outsold" is because of the history of the two clubs. You can then point to your second reason, but there was no indication before Madrid came in that this wasn't a viable deal, and when you've gone to the trouble of establishing contact and trying to do the deal you don't give up because a bigger competitor comes in late on.

It's not just a simple sales pitch when it comes to real people and involves issues such as relocation and new climates. When the product's are very similar it's a natural reaction to err on the side of caution.

All sales pitches involve real people ;-) Selling is a people thing.

But I accept there is an element of hindsight being 20:20 vision in what I said and in life you can't tell how things are going to pan out.

It's a lesson though, because however we got the end holds true. Either we were outsold - i.e. he could have come here if we had sold it better than Madrid did. Or no matter what we did, he would always have gone to Madrid when they decided they were interested. It's either one or the other.

Personally, I think it's the former. We should have wrapped the deal up weeks ago before his joining Madrid was even on the cards. And once they were involved, we should have tried harder. Lesson learned imho.

I think it's different when you're asking people to move as opposed to sell a product to them, I think it makes the deal more complicated.

I do things some lessons will be learnt, which is what I then mentioned about our dealings with Malaga and perhaps not appreciating that life would become difficult with the way we dealt with them without the Barca clout behind us. It's easier for Malaga to haggle with us than it is with Barca due to the reputations of the clubs and also the feeling that Malaga would be able to get a better deal out of us whereas Barca could put more pressure on them. Also perhaps getting paper signed as opposed to agreements that may have worked at Barca, this is all stuff that will be taken on board and learnt from imo.

I do think there's some hindsight in your post though. I think the slowness on Isco came from the slowness with Pellegrini joining and that allowed, and no matter what people say I think this has truth, Isco to go off to the U21s and shine which got everybody's attention, and I really think it became the easiest fix for Madrid to sign someone much cheaper than Bale that would pacify the fanbase and that they could justify and sell to everybody. Letting them have a chance was a mistake but it's one we'll learn from, I have faith in that.

 

[flb]

Could do a lot worse than getting David Villa for a season or two.

Its a very very good shout to be fair,sure Tolm said his agent had been in touch but wanted massive wages-hes a player who doesnt need to rely on pace, hes lethal in and around the box-especially with the likes of Navas and Silva around him.

I agree but i'm not paying the wages. would be great for two seasons and would give us time to find a suitable replacement.

Could do an awful lot worse, as you say it buys us time until the market is a little more favourable.

How about a punt on Torres? Probably would get him for £15 million, still think hes got enough to offer under the right circumstances.

 

[charliebigspuds]

Lost basically said yesterday that an ITK on another form (Blue Vibe I believe) had a text from an English city player saying they believed Isco was signing on Tuesday.

The info Lost gave was exciting but it got lost in the banter about him being a bit snobby that ensued.

By the way what has Bibby added to the mix this morning mate?

it is blue vibe, now back to the ironing ;)

Stop blagging mate, your missus told mine she's got you cutting the grass and doing the big shop today ;)

haha, twat!

 

[oakiecokie]

Fairly agreed with paragraph 3,4 & 5
But not on first two & last though.
You are calling some of our own " rags " because they had different opinion or how they express their thought? We are all have the rights to read & write what we are thinking. But to tell them shut the fuck up, grow up, engaging their brains was a little too offensive to me.

Another one with "thin" skin.

I'm not talking to you, alright.
Let's see if you are a " thick " skin one.

SHUT THE ____ UP

Mmmmmmmm.Looks like I proved my point !<br /><br />-- Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:10 am --<br /><br />

I'm not talking to you, alright.
Let's see if you are a " thick " skin one.

SHUT THE ____ UP

Can he choose the word that goes in that space? 'hell'? 'fuck'? 'frig'?

No mate,thats whats between DIEMANS lugholes !! ;)

 

[OB1]

Say there are no more incomings and no more outgoings,
would people be happy that the current squad could compete
on all four fronts next season. I think yes.

I say "no", which is why I am massively unimpressed that we seem to have failed to sign Cavani and Isco. However, the window is not closed yet so we shall have to wait and see if the club will do more to increase the quality of the squad.

I saw one article that said City will not be looking for an alternative to Isco, which I find strange as I think we need another creative player. Silva, in particular, needs more competition and also needs to be rested more often.

 

[Stoned Rose]

This is just an hangover extension of losing van Persie to the dark side, it really got under a lot of blues skin. If he signs on the dotted line with one of uefas darlings then city should go all out for a top centre back, a real dominant player who would compliment Kompany and nasty. That was where the problem lay last year.

a tad harsh on the team with the best defensive record in the PL

No it wasn't a reflection on a great defensive display, I just feel that the injuries in defence helped to our losing the prem, if you have another like vinney then that would give the defensive side of the midfield more striker support, more players in the opposition last 3rd would create more goals.

more players in the opposition last 3rd would create more goals

Not necessarily.

We spent the majority of last season (esp at home) camped in the opposition's third of the pitch.

Problem was we didn't exploit that luxury properly.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Lost basically said yesterday that an ITK on another form (Blue Vibe I believe) had a text from an English city player saying they believed Isco was signing on Tuesday.

The info Lost gave was exciting but it got lost in the banter about him being a bit snobby that ensued.

By the way what has Bibby added to the mix this morning mate?

it is blue vibe, now back to the ironing ;)

Stop blagging mate, your missus told mine she's got you cutting the grass and doing the big shop today ;)

Don't think Bibby has been on today however he pm'd me yesterday saying it was 100% on..

 

[hgblue]

I don't think that analogy really works, we do have USP's and Ferran and Txiki are fully integrated into how the club is being run and the direction of the club and what we can offer. The market for footballers, for people as tradeable commodities is a lot different to selling inanimate objects. You have to analyse the person's feelings and thought patterns and judge whether it's going to work. It seemed encouraging until Madrid came in, and they have seemingly secured the deal with a great deal of effort by playing on the natural advantage(which does matter when dealing with humans) of their global appeal and their location relative to the player. We can counter that with guaranteed first team football and big status here but only if Madrid don't make the huge effort to persuade him they will match that, and ultimately if he succeeds at Madrid he will become a bigger star especially at home than he ever will do here, that's the way it goes. Therefore our meaningful sales advantage has gone, and the only reason we've been "outsold" is because of the history of the two clubs. You can then point to your second reason, but there was no indication before Madrid came in that this wasn't a viable deal, and when you've gone to the trouble of establishing contact and trying to do the deal you don't give up because a bigger competitor comes in late on.

It's not just a simple sales pitch when it comes to real people and involves issues such as relocation and new climates. When the product's are very similar it's a natural reaction to err on the side of caution.

All sales pitches involve real people ;-) Selling is a people thing.

But I accept there is an element of hindsight being 20:20 vision in what I said and in life you can't tell how things are going to pan out.

It's a lesson though, because however we got the end holds true. Either we were outsold - i.e. he could have come here if we had sold it better than Madrid did. Or no matter what we did, he would always have gone to Madrid when they decided they were interested. It's either one or the other.

Personally, I think it's the former. We should have wrapped the deal up weeks ago before his joining Madrid was even on the cards. And once they were involved, we should have tried harder. Lesson learned imho.

I think it's different when you're asking people to move as opposed to sell a product to them, I think it makes the deal more complicated.

I do things some lessons will be learnt, which is what I then mentioned about our dealings with Malaga and perhaps not appreciating that life would become difficult with the way we dealt with them without the Barca clout behind us. It's easier for Malaga to haggle with us than it is with Barca due to the reputations of the clubs and also the feeling that Malaga would be able to get a better deal out of us whereas Barca could put more pressure on them. Also perhaps getting paper signed as opposed to agreements that may have worked at Barca, this is all stuff that will be taken on board and learnt from imo.

I do think there's some hindsight in your post though. I think the slowness on Isco came from the slowness with Pellegrini joining and that allowed, and no matter what people say I think this has truth, Isco to go off to the U21s and shine which got everybody's attention, and I really think it became the easiest fix for Madrid to sign someone much cheaper than Bale that would pacify the fanbase and that they could justify and sell to everybody. Letting them have a chance was a mistake but it's one we'll learn from, I have faith in that.

But it was a bloody stupid mistake to make. If you're interested in signing a top quality young player who's about to perform in a high profile tournament, there's always the possibility that he will shine and his performances will push his price up/attract interest from rival clubs. Bloody naive to let that happen imo.

 

[TonyM]

Say there are no more incomings and no more outgoings,
would people be happy that the current squad could compete
on all four fronts next season. I think yes.

I would say that we still need penetration down the left. Nasri slows the play too much on occasion and Clichy can't really seem to cross. Either we get a more effective LB which is harder said than done as we've seen over the years. (Plus Clichy is. Good LB otherwise) Or we get a LW who is like Navas. Maybe DiMaria.

All the said Nasri being slow on one side while Navas being quick on the other I not a disaster. We don't have to play 2 wingers at the same time (90s style) but having choices on either side would be great. For example DiMaria/Nasri on one side, Navas/Silva on the other. A perfect mixture of skill and speed to choose from. :-)

 

[Plain Speaking]

Plenty of "cyber bullying" visible this morning, for posters that dont accept the "party line".

Isco was an attainable target at a realistic price. IMO we failed on this one, however we dress it up. There will be many disappointed fans.

Transfer strategies that worked at Barca wont necessarily work with us.
Lets learn from our mistakes and move on.

 

[Grieffymcfcctid]

i think we should sign a few young lads now, forget cavani, go for that muriel or morata if madrid would sell and maybe draxler but im sure he as just signed a new deal, marquinhos should be our main target for a centre back too

 

[andrewmswift]

i'll say this, after all of this, if we land him and he signs today it'd be a brilliant coup. that'd be worth all the extra drama it took

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

All sales pitches involve real people ;-) Selling is a people thing.

But I accept there is an element of hindsight being 20:20 vision in what I said and in life you can't tell how things are going to pan out.

It's a lesson though, because however we got the end holds true. Either we were outsold - i.e. he could have come here if we had sold it better than Madrid did. Or no matter what we did, he would always have gone to Madrid when they decided they were interested. It's either one or the other.

Personally, I think it's the former. We should have wrapped the deal up weeks ago before his joining Madrid was even on the cards. And once they were involved, we should have tried harder. Lesson learned imho.

I think it's different when you're asking people to move as opposed to sell a product to them, I think it makes the deal more complicated.

I do things some lessons will be learnt, which is what I then mentioned about our dealings with Malaga and perhaps not appreciating that life would become difficult with the way we dealt with them without the Barca clout behind us. It's easier for Malaga to haggle with us than it is with Barca due to the reputations of the clubs and also the feeling that Malaga would be able to get a better deal out of us whereas Barca could put more pressure on them. Also perhaps getting paper signed as opposed to agreements that may have worked at Barca, this is all stuff that will be taken on board and learnt from imo.

I do think there's some hindsight in your post though. I think the slowness on Isco came from the slowness with Pellegrini joining and that allowed, and no matter what people say I think this has truth, Isco to go off to the U21s and shine which got everybody's attention, and I really think it became the easiest fix for Madrid to sign someone much cheaper than Bale that would pacify the fanbase and that they could justify and sell to everybody. Letting them have a chance was a mistake but it's one we'll learn from, I have faith in that.

But it was a bloody stupid mistake to make. If you're interested in signing a top quality young player who's about to perform in a high profile tournament, there's always the possibility that he will shine and his performances will push his price up/attract interest from rival clubs. Bloody naive to let that happen imo.

It is assuming we had a deal agreed with Malaga, depending on the source they were playing hard ball and it could have been down to the Pellegrini compensation, or they could just have wanted the full buyout which we didn't deem a good deal, there's a lot of possibilities that require different lessons to be learnt depending on which holds the most truth.

 

[Second Skin]

I was more into punk and ska anyway.

 

[Platini Pollock]

Say there are no more incomings and no more outgoings,
would people be happy that the current squad could compete
on all four fronts next season. I think yes.

Not going happen though IMO. Based on what our owner said in his interview.....

 

[Taylor]

i'll say this, after all of this, if we land him and he signs today it'd be a brilliant coup. that'd be worth all the extra drama it took

with everything that has gone on the only place he will be signing today will be at Madrid

 

[bluethai]

Look closely and compare our squad to Bayern, Barca, Real, and Chelsea's, we are still very much light in creativity and quality imo.