Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

[SWP's back]

But these views are guided more by culture than religion.

Bollocks. So every Islamic state just so happens to have a culture that abhorres and criminalises homosexuality and yet it’s nothing to do with Islam or religion in and of itself?

So, where are you from homar.

Christian countries would be exactly the same I grant you, they were 3 or 400 years ago, but two things happened, firstly it went through the reformation and enlightenment and secondly, people started to realise that believing in a two millennia year old book was a fools errand. Now the U.K. can have homosexual vicars and no one really gives a toss. Long may it continue.

 

[Homar]

Christ, as strawmen go, that’s a weak one. No. I’m not saying all atheists do no evil.

I’m saying that atheism isn’t used as beacon to excuse or give virtue to evil acts.

The cunts following A.Q and I.S genuinely believe that what they are doing is virtuous. They believe that when they achieve martyrdom then paradise and a boat load of virgins await. They believe that their religion tells them that jihad is the most holy quest they can undertake.

As for the reason why IS throw gay men off buildings:

“There are several places in the Quran where the story of Sodom is repeated, with emphasis placed on the destruction of the town for homosexual lewdness. Also, according to Serge Trifkovic: Mohammed’s first successor Abu Bakr reportedly had a homosexual burned at the stake. The fourth caliph, Mohammed’s son-in-law Ali, ordered a sodomite thrown from the minaret of a mosque. Others he ordered to be stoned. One of the earliest and most authoritative commentators on the Koran, Ibn ‘Abbas (died 687) blended both approaches into a two-step execution in which “the sodomite should be thrown from the highest building in the town and then stoned.”

You again use the actions of some Muslims to claim that the problem is with the religion. You seemingly acknowledge that there is nothing in the Quran about homosexuality other than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Therefore the issue is not a religious one. You are unable to differentiate the religion from its followers.

Let me use another example. Do you believe the Burka to be an Islamic dress? It is often used in an attempt to show that Islam oppressed women, despite the fact that it is a cultural dress that predates Islam. There is absolutely no requirement to wear such a garment. It has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, despite the fact that you’ll find many Muslim women wearing it.

 

[Homar]

Fucking quote me then because you’ve decided to make that up.

Err...

In the mean time, one is miles ahead. Islam needs a reformation

 

[SWP's back]

You seemingly acknowledge that there is nothing in the Quran about homosexuality other than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Which is referenced more than a handful of times and is taken further in several hadiths.

Therefore the issue is not a religious one.

No, it is a religious one as it appears in your holy book and homosexuality is denounced. It’s then taken further by several hadiths and the Islamic leaders following Mohammed.

If you really want to go at this then tomorrow I’ll post every fucking verse of the Koran and the hadiths or just link you up so you can stop pretending that it’s never mentioned.

You are unable to differentiate the religion from its followers.

I am able to do that very well. You’re still not getting it. It’s got everything to do with Islam.

Do you believe the Burka to be an Islamic dress?

No. A point I’ve made on here for years.

There is absolutely no requirement to wear such a garment.

As I am well aware, hence why it isn’t law to do so in the majority of Islamic states, Saudi included.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, despite the fact that you’ll find many Muslim women wearing it.

Yes, well done. We are in agreement on the burka.

 

[SWP's back]

Err...

The preceding sentence:

“As soon as there are no groups running around imprisoning or killing gay people then I’ll agree that that they are as bad as each other.”

So yeah, you carry on excusing Islam. You keep thinking it’s pure coincidence that every Islamic states has the same ‘cultural’ anti-gay sentiment and laws and that your favourite religion has fuck all to do with it.

I’m off to enjoy a nice Iftar beer on the balcony with my wife and some friends and will no doubt reply to whatever bilge you post next tomorrow.

 

[Homar]

Bollocks. So every Islamic state just so happens to have a culture that abhorres and criminalises homosexuality and yet it’s nothing to do with Islam or religion in and of itself?

So, where are you from homar.

Christian countries would be exactly the same I grant you, they were 3 or 400 years ago, but two things happened, firstly it went through the reformation and enlightenment and secondly, people started to realise that believing in a two millennia year old book was a fools errand. Now the U.K. can have homosexual vicars and no one really gives a toss. Long may it continue.

But the religion hasn’t changed! What is it that you don’t understand about that?

My father is ethnically Berber from the North West coast of Algeria. He can’t remember seeing any women wearing face or even hair coverings during his childhood years, despite the fact that the local population was mainly Muslim. During the unrest Wahabism started to creep into the country and all of a sudden you wouldn’t see any woman outside without a white full face and body covering. Thankfully that has gone now.

What many people associate with Islam is actually elements of Saudi culture. They often have absolutely nothing to do with the religion.

There certainly needs to be a major change in thinking amongst Muslims. And that will happen with time. But the religion won’t change just as the Christian religion didn’t change. Its followers changed. That is what you termed the enlightenment/renaissance, which I agree with. But it wasn’t a change in the religion.

You can still find Christians that hold extreme views based on a complete unwavering belief in the Bible. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church, for example.

 

[Homar]

Which is referenced more than a handful of times and is taken further in several hadiths.



No, it is a religious one as it appears in your holy book and homosexuality is denounced. It’s then taken further by several hadiths and the Islamic leaders following Mohammed.

If you really want to go at this then tomorrow I’ll post every fucking verse of the Koran and the hadiths or just link you up so you can stop pretending that it’s never mentioned.



I am able to do that very well. You’re still not getting it. It’s got everything to do with Islam.



No. A point I’ve made on here for years.



As I am well aware, hence why it isn’t law to do so in the majority of Islamic states, Saudi included.



Yes, well done. We are in agreement on the burka.

The Hadith are a compilation of stories, many from highly questionable sources and many with incredible contradictions. They in no way form the basis of the religion. Many Muslims believe that it is not permitted to follow any “teachings” contained in them.

Again, the only reference to homosexuality is in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The same story that is in the Bible. So Islam and Christianity hold homosexuality in equal regard. It is the *followers* of those religions that hold very different views.

 

[Homar]

The preceding sentence:

“As soon as there are no groups running around imprisoning or killing gay people then I’ll agree that that they are as bad as each other.”

So yeah, you carry on excusing Islam. You keep thinking it’s pure coincidence that every Islamic states has the same ‘cultural’ anti-gay sentiment and laws and that your favourite religion has fuck all to do with it.

I’m off to enjoy a nice Iftar beer on the balcony with my wife and some friends and will no doubt reply to whatever bilge you post next tomorrow.

You’ll find homophobic views right across Africa, including amongst the Christian population there. Similarly, you’ll find FGM common amongst sub-Saharan African communities - another cultural issue mistakenly labelled as a problem with Islam. You’ll find honour killings prevalent amongst Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities. You’ve already acknowledged that the subjugate dresses frequently associated with Islam are in fact cultural.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

The Hadith are a compilation of stories, many from highly questionable sources and many with incredible contradictions. They in no way form the basis of the religion. Many Muslims believe that it is not permitted to follow any “teachings” contained in them.

Again, the only reference to homosexuality is in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The same story that is in the Bible. So Islam and Christianity hold homosexuality in equal regard. It is the *followers* of those religions that hold very different views.

Good grief, debates about a mythical being and that mythical beings moral imposition on humans.

You can’t all be right , Jews Christians Islam, Buddhists . Quite a few of you are going to be disappointed in the after life.

Where’s that unicorn?

 

[Metal Biker]

You’ll find homophobic views right across Africa, including amongst the Christian population there. Similarly, you’ll find FGM common amongst sub-Saharan African communities - another cultural issue mistakenly labelled as a problem with Islam. You’ll find honour killings prevalent amongst Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities. You’ve already acknowledged that the subjugate dresses frequently associated with Islam are in fact cultural.

All you're doing here is highlighting the reason why religion as a philosophy is a backward mentality and should be, for the sake of all humanity, consigned to history that we should learn from as a time when people were bigoted enough to use an imaginary sky fairy as justification to be really shitty to other people.

If any culture condones condemning people to death for how they live, not through choice but through natural expression, then it's a culture that really needs to disappear. I've said that of Christianity for many, many years. There's a reason Atheism is the fastest growing ideology in the world. Over 1 billion in 40 years, worldwide.