Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

[Homar]

This is the irony though. By doing that, they've turned him into far more of an idol than God himself. Criticising Muhammed is likely to get you in trouble in the Islamic world. Nobody gives a shit if you criticise God though, and they use his name regularly in the same way that we do.

But it doesn’t just apply to Mohammed. It applies to Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc. Oh, and I’m pretty sure that criticising God will land you in a whole lot of trouble in most majority Muslim countries.

What in this country (and in the West in general) is viewed as taking Gods name in vain is not viewed as the same in the Arab and Muslim countries. It’s common practice for example to invoke the name of God when you get up in the morning, leave your front door, start the car, sneeze, etc. You really have to live there to understand.

All that would be seen as very odd and even disrespectful amongst religious people here. But it is common amongst Muslims and Christians in the Middle East.

 

[Homar]

Muslims openly make fun of Muhammed in the Islamic world? Can non-Muslims openly mock Muhammed in these same Islamic countries? How about the big man himself? Allah says "let there be light!" yet later he makes the Sun and stars? None of this triggers a thought in their heads that "hang on, are we really going to trust a book written by someone eons ago which no-one saw him write as actual proof that he's being honest about what he says?" Is me even questioning that Islamophobic? Is me questioning the mentality of a person who believes it to be true Islamophobic? Because I can guarentee you, saying any of this around Muslims or questioning the integrity of Allah specifically is met with some rather hostile arguments, not least from those suggesting I hold racist views for questioning what to me is an insane perception of reality.

Absolutely not. But criticising Jesus or any other prophet would land you in just as much trouble, even if it were a criticism of Christianity.

I don’t like the word “Islamophobic”. It does suggest that criticism of the religion is a mental illness. But there is no question that many racists hide behind this in order to target Muslims. I’d rather racism were called racism and we didn’t need to distinguish between racism of different ethnicities, as if one form is more or less permissible than another. Look at the EDL for example, which claims to be against “radical Islam” but behind doors it’s members express openly racist views. Many of them can be seen waving Israeli flags, but are overtly antisemitic.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

But it doesn’t just apply to Mohammed. It applies to Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc. Oh, and I’m pretty sure that criticising God will land you in a whole lot of trouble in most majority Muslim countries.

Criticising the authority of the religion will land you in trouble. But there aren't worldwide riots when some Western magazine slags off God, even if they call him Allah as they do it. Blasphemy is most frequently used as a weapon against someone for reasons other than genuine religious offence, although that wouldn't work if enough of the wider public weren't genuinely offended by it. Almost all of the cases I've ever read about where someone has been accused of blasphemy, the issue has either been denying or desecrating the Qu'ran, or insulting the prophet (THE prophet, not a prophet - it is almost always only one). I've never heard of a single incident of a Muslim being accused of blasphemy for criticising Jesus or Moses. I'm sure it's happened, because people will look for any excuse to discredit someone they've had a disagreement with.

What in this country (and in the West in general) is viewed as taking Gods name in vain is not viewed as the same in the Arab and Muslim countries. It’s common practice for example to invoke the name of God when you get up in the morning, leave your front door, start the car, sneeze, etc. You really have to live there to understand.

I live in Morocco btw. Almost all of my friends here are Muslim or from a Muslim background. They might invoke God's name, but it's not consciously referring to God. It's just a habit of language. It's no different from saying "For God's sake." Nobody is thinking of a beardy man in the sky when they say that. It's just a phrase linked to a function of language.

 

[Ricster]

I've never heard a Christian make those remarks in my presence. If I ever hear someone make a homophobic remark, I ask them if they're religious. None have ever claimed to be of any religion at all so it's just that they are dickheads.

I've heard the word 'gandu' many times.

Plenty of the nutty brigade out here. My favourite question, which i ask every time, Whta did Jesus say about homosexuality in the bible?

The kind of people who stsnd outside abortion clinics and hurl insults and abuse at people. Not a very Christian thing to do

 

[andyhinch]

Plenty of the nutty brigade out here. My favourite question, which i ask every time, Whta did Jesus say about homosexuality in the bible?

The kind of people who stsnd outside abortion clinics and hurl insults and abuse at people. Not a very Christian thing to do

I'm not sure but he did like to ride and ass ;-)

 

[goater555]

Divide and conquer

 

[Fame Monster]

You seem to be unable to differentiate the people from the religion, of which you clearly know nothing. The religion grants Jews an elevated status over other adherents to non-abrahamic religions. It is no more antisemitic than Christianity.

They have to pay a tax instead of a death sentence to followers of non-Abrahamic religions? Can you not see that this is why many people are Islamophobic?

 

[Homar]

They have to pay a tax instead of a death sentence to followers of non-Abrahamic religions? Can you not see that this is why many people are Islamophobic?

My understanding is that Jizya (tax for non-Muslims) was to be levied as a compensation and war reparation on groups that were at war with Muslims living in Muslim lands. And they were not the only ones taxed. Muslims were also taxed.

It’s a valid criticism, but let’s not make out that Christendom was any better. Jews and other religious and ethnic minorities were treated far worse in Europe than they have ever been in the Middle East. You can also look at the current treatment of Arabs and Muslims by Israel or of the Rohingya by Buddhists.

And there is no death sentence just for being non-Muslim in Islam. This is just factually false, but I note that this is claimed by extremist fringe far-right groups as a smear against Muslims.

 

[Homar]

I live in Morocco btw. Almost all of my friends here are Muslim or from a Muslim background. They might invoke God's name, but it's not consciously referring to God. It's just a habit of language. It's no different from saying "For God's sake." Nobody is thinking of a beardy man in the sky when they say that. It's just a phrase linked to a function of language.

North Africa is very different to the Middle East. North Africans have a culture distinct from Arab culture. In Saudi Arabia, for example, people say Bismillah (literally meaning “in the name of God”) before embarking on just about everything. The normal response when asked how you are is to reply alhamdolillah (literally meaning “thanks to God”). It’s normal to invoke God in almost every other sentence. Religion is deeply ingrained in the culture, and this behaviour predates Islam.

 

[Fame Monster]

My understanding is that Jizya (tax for non-Muslims) was to be levied as a compensation and war reparation on groups that were at war with Muslims living in Muslim lands. And they were not the only ones taxed. Muslims were also taxed.

“Fight those who believe not in God and in the Last Day, and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, and who follow not the Religion of Truth among those who were given the Book, till they pay the jizyah with a willing hand, being humbled”.

And for apostasy...

“You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority”.

For me, no matter how you want to twist it (even if that’s what Islam and the world needs no matter how intellectually dishonest that is), this is a book that promotes amongst other things; violence, subjugation, homophobia, paedophilia, murder, sexism, hatred, oppression and slavery. When people say it’s worse than Judaism or Christianity, it’s because, at this moment in time in the world, it promotes more evil than those two religions combined even if the language used in the Old Testament is often similar. The fact is, if me or you wrote it today, there wouldn’t be one person on Bluemoon trying to defend it (not even stonerblue). There’d be no-one in the Guardian trying to suppress criticism of it. We wouldn’t have people killing others on account of violent passages within the book because the book would not be published. We’d get laughed out of Penguin and when the police found out, we’d be getting hauled before the courts on the Racial and Religious Discrimination Act 2006. We would actually escape a maximum sentence because we’d be sent to a lunatic asylum.