Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

[Homar]

Good grief, debates about a mythical being and that mythical beings moral imposition on humans.

You can’t all be right , Jews Christians Islam, Buddhists . Quite a few of you are going to be disappointed in the after life.

Where’s that unicorn?

I self describe as agnostic. I just think that Islam receives far too much unfair criticism, particularly about things that have little to do with religion.

 

[Metal Biker]

I self describe as agnostic. I just think that Islam receives far too much unfair criticism, particularly about things that have little to do with religion.

It doesn't. It really doesn't, if anything it doesn't get enough. Christianity thankfully is being ridiculed openly. I just wait for the day when Islam can be with equal vigour.

 

[Homar]

All you're doing here is highlighting the reason why religion as a philosophy is a backward mentality and should be, for the sake of all humanity, consigned to history that we should learn from as a time when people were bigoted enough to use an imaginary sky fairy as justification to be really shitty to other people.

If any culture condones condemning people to death for how they live, not through choice but through natural expression, then it's a culture that really needs to disappear. I've said that of Christianity for many, many years. There's a reason Atheism is the fastest growing ideology in the world. Over 1 billion in 40 years, worldwide.

I would agree with much of this. I’m not saying that Islam is better than Judaism or Christianity. They share very similar beliefs. Their followers, for various though mainly cultural reasons, have very different behaviours, values and beliefs. All I have said is that it is unfair to dismiss all of these problems as an issue with Islam or even with religion in general.

 

[Homar]

It doesn't. It really doesn't, if anything it doesn't get enough. Christianity thankfully is being ridiculed openly. I just wait for the day when Islam can be with equal vigour.

You think that Christianity is criticised more than Islam?

 

[Metal Biker]

You think that Christianity is criticised more than Islam?

In the western world, aboslutely. It's mocked in virtually every aspect of media. Jesus has been animated, portrayed by actors and that's nothing of Christmas. Can you say Muhammad has been made a figure of fun to the same extent?

 

[Metal Biker]

I would agree with much of this. I’m not saying that Islam is better than Judaism or Christianity. They share very similar beliefs. Their followers, for various though mainly cultural reasons, have very different behaviours, values and beliefs. All I have said is that it is unfair to dismiss all of these problems as an issue with Islam or even with religion in general.

Religion is an aspect of humanity stemming from our past when we were still figuring out how the world worked.
First it was a Sun God that brought life, then a Moon God that stole the light and only by sacrficing a virgin every year would the Sun return.
Then, no wait, it's not one Sun god, but MANY gods, led by a master God (Zeus, Jupiter, Odin, Vishnu etc) and each god 'controlled' an aspect of society attributed to humans...


... no wait, it's ONE God and He created everything! In six days! He saved his chosen people the Hebrews, who then pissed Him off, but He gave us another chance, had nookie with a Hebrew girl, gave birth to...himself, only for the same Hebrews to have him killed, but then he spoke to some Arabic Pagan on a mountain with the Final Edition of his series entitled "how to get on my good side", except, spolier alert, now there are consequences if you don't read or follow it, to the letter.

Keep religion? The sooner it's gone, all of it, the sooner humanity can progress.

 

[Homar]

In the western world, aboslutely. It's mocked in virtually every aspect of media. Jesus has been animated, portrayed by actors and that's nothing of Christmas. Can you say Muhammad has been made a figure of fun to the same extent?

Yeah, I wouldn’t say that most of that was intentionally derogatory. Do you know why Muslims believe it forbidden to depict Mohammed (or any other Muslim prophet, including Jesus)? It’s not so that they can’t be criticised, as is so often the reason assumed. It is in fact almost the opposite - to avoid them being worshipped. I was taught that Muslims believe that there was only one perfect prophet, and that was Jesus. Therefore, being imperfect, criticism of Mohammed is surely permissible within the religion?

 

[Metal Biker]

Yeah, I wouldn’t say that most of that was intentionally derogatory. Do you know why Muslims believe it forbidden to depict Mohammed (or any other Muslim prophet, including Jesus)? It’s not so that they can’t be criticised, as is so often the reason assumed. It is in fact almost the opposite - to avoid them being worshipped. I was taught that Muslims believe that there was only one perfect prophet, and that was Jesus. Therefore, being imperfect, criticism of Mohammed is surely permissible within the religion?

Muslims openly make fun of Muhammed in the Islamic world? Can non-Muslims openly mock Muhammed in these same Islamic countries? How about the big man himself? Allah says "let there be light!" yet later he makes the Sun and stars? None of this triggers a thought in their heads that "hang on, are we really going to trust a book written by someone eons ago which no-one saw him write as actual proof that he's being honest about what he says?" Is me even questioning that Islamophobic? Is me questioning the mentality of a person who believes it to be true Islamophobic? Because I can guarentee you, saying any of this around Muslims or questioning the integrity of Allah specifically is met with some rather hostile arguments, not least from those suggesting I hold racist views for questioning what to me is an insane perception of reality.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Yeah, I wouldn’t say that most of that was intentionally derogatory. Do you know why Muslims believe it forbidden to depict Mohammed (or any other Muslim prophet, including Jesus)? It’s not so that they can’t be criticised, as is so often the reason assumed. It is in fact almost the opposite - to avoid them being worshipped. I was taught that Muslims believe that there was only one perfect prophet, and that was Jesus. Therefore, being imperfect, criticism of Mohammed is surely permissible within the religion?

This is the irony though. By doing that, they've turned him into far more of an idol than God himself. Criticising Muhammed is likely to get you in trouble in the Islamic world. Nobody gives a shit if you criticise God though, and they use his name regularly in the same way that we do.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Islamophobia is definitely a thing beyond just criticising the religion. Saying that you can't be Islamophobic because Islam is a religion is about as convincing as the idea that you can't be anti-Semitic because Judaism is a religion. It probably should really be called Muslimphobia instead. Which doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people who try to silence legitimate criticism of Islam with accusations of Islamophobia. But equally, how often do certain groups try to criticise legitimate criticism of Israel with accusations of Antisemitism? It doesn't mean Antisemitism doesn't exist, just as dickheads who try to cry Islamophobia when someone points out the terrible aspects of the religion, don't negate the genuine experience of Islamophobia of the Muslim woman who get abuse as she walks down the street or the kid at school who has her hijab pulled off for example. Of course it doesn't help that almost all Muslim people in the UK are non-white, meaning that it often also gets mixed up with good old-fashioned racism. And amongst people who are into that sort of thing, it's quite obviously evolved into a way of slagging off brown people, while being able to claim that you're only criticising an ideology. And this has the further problem of discouraging people who normally would criticise things like subjugation of women, or rampant homophobia in certain sections of the Islamic community, from refusing to do so for fear of being lumped in with the racists.

Anyway, Ramadan Mubarak.