Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

Mëtal Bikër said:
Not that i've seen, they either identify as agnostic, atheist, another religion entirely, or my personal favourite cop out, "brought up Catholic", but I wouldn't refer to any of them as being "Christian" as they readily admit to no longer following the religious practices nor do they identify as such.

I cannot think of a single mainstream, Christian declaring comedian. Though again you seem to be arguing the point that Christians are the one who can have a laugh and poke fun at their beliefs whilst Muslims cannot, which is a shared opinion on this thread discussion, so what are you arguing against exactly?
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Not in the slightest, I argued non muslims probably don't make jokes bout muslims as they are not knowledgable enough of it's inner workings to do so, and then said there were muslim comics that do joke about their life as a muslim.
Stating dave allen and graham lineham parodied catholicism because they are catholic isn't a cop out, it's what they did, same like I take the piss out of being a catholic.
And no comedians in gemeral don't do monologues on what religin they are, but peopel like kevin bridges, billy connoly, russel howards, ben elton have done routines about their life growing up and referenced their experiences growing up in christian families/schools, the vicar of didbley was heavily influenced of the life of the first female vicar.

Most of comedy has moved away from parodying christianity anyway and was more of the 70s-90s, the last comedy series about the christian istitution was the highly enjoyable Rev and was less about taking the piss out of the religion, but modern life and the way the church fits into it.
 
Anyway enough on tv comedy and back onto the original topic of the tory party and an anti-muslim agenda.

Tell MAMA the group set up by Eric Pickles to tackle anti-islamic views and actions has said it called for an investigation 2 yearsago within the conservative party and made recomendations to it that it has consistantly ignored
 
urban genie said:
Anyway enough on tv comedy and back onto the original topic of the tory party and an anti-muslim agenda.

Tell MAMA the group set up by Eric Pickles to tackle anti-islamic views and actions has said it called for an investigation 2 yearsago within the conservative party and made recomendations to it that it has consistantly ignored
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Oy - don't derail the thread.......
 
Fame Monster said:
“Fight those who believe not in God and in the Last Day, and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, and who follow not the Religion of Truth among those who were given the Book, till they pay the jizyah with a willing hand, being humbled”.

And for apostasy...

“You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority”.

For me, no matter how you want to twist it (even if that’s what Islam and the world needs no matter how intellectually dishonest that is), this is a book that promotes amongst other things; violence, subjugation, homophobia, paedophilia, murder, sexism, hatred, oppression and slavery. When people say it’s worse than Judaism or Christianity, it’s because, at this moment in time in the world, it promotes more evil than those two religions combined even if the language used in the Old Testament is often similar. The fact is, if me or you wrote it today, there wouldn’t be one person on Bluemoon trying to defend it (not even stonerblue). There’d be no-one in the Guardian trying to suppress criticism of it. We wouldn’t have people killing others on account of violent passages within the book because the book would not be published. We’d get laughed out of Penguin and when the police found out, we’d be getting hauled before the courts on the Racial and Religious Discrimination Act 2006. We would actually escape a maximum sentence because we’d be sent to a lunatic asylum.
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You have quoted passages in which the context is that Muslims are fighting a religious war where the enemy is unwilling to make peace. It is frequently used by far-right fringe groups to justify hatred and violence against Muslims. The Quran is no more violent than the Bible. The fact is that the Bible, Quran, Torah and Talmud all contain violent passages, but you choose to target only the Quran and Muslims. Why is that?

From the Bible:

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

 
I'm With Stupid said:
So my Muslim country doesn't count because it doesn't back up your argument? I'll remind you that your original point was about "Muslim and Arab countries," and that I have to "live there to understand." Now it turns out that I do live there, you've changed the rules to mean specifically Saudi Arabia. Without wanted to sound like a 10 year old, my Muslim country is bigger than yours, so it's equally worthy of being representative of what Muslim and Arab countries are like. Which of course is not at all, because it's a big part of the world and all of them are different.

But this is just a matter of linguistics. It's the difference between the literal meaning of what people say and the function. Moroccan people also regularly invoke God in their sentences, far more than we do in the UK. If you ask them what they're doing at the weekend, they'll often follow up their plans with "in sha Allah" meaning "God willing." And they'll even do this when speaking English sometimes. But does this mean that they're including religion in the conversation? Well given that my atheist Moroccan friends also use it, probably not. When you ask what "salam alaykum" means, you'll be told "peace be upon you." An obviously religious phrase. But the idea that people are thinking religious thoughts when they say it is like thinking that British people are genuinely interested in your well-being when they greet you with "alright?" In terms of actual function (excluding certain contexts) the correct translation would just be "hi." I don't doubt that somewhere like Saudi Arabia, there are likely to be more genuinely religious uses of these terms, but that doesn't mean that you can extrapolate to the rest of the Muslim world that all or most references to God in speech are religiously inclined. What do you say after someone sneezes in the UK? And are you genuinely praying to God to bless them? Well I'm sure you could find someone who is, but that doesn't mean they represent the whole Christian world.
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We were talking about culture and how religion is deeply imbedded into that culture. Morocco and North Africa in general has a different culture to Arab countries. I should know because I am part Algerian and have lived in both Algeria and Saudi Arabia. North Africans are not Arab, though I fully appreciate that some label themselves Arab and give their children Arab names.

Let me give you a tangible example to demonstrate the difference. North African Muslims generally celebrate the birth of Mohammed. Saudis and Arabs in general consider this completely forbidden for two reasons:
  1. Mohammed was said to have died on the same day that he was born and so celebrating that day they consider to be celebrating his death.
  2. It is forbidden to celebrate anything other than Eid. That includes things like birthdays.
 
steviemc said:
That claim is rather disingenuous. People from all sides of the political spectrum believe that many Islamic jurists still regard apostacy as a crime deserving the death penalty - which is indeed factually correct.
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I didn’t say anything about apostasy. I have no doubt that some “Islamic Law” jurists do hold such views. You can find many Muslims, Christians and Jews that hold disgusting views not fit for this millennium.

Apostasy is punishable by death in the Bible:

If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

But that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
 
Homar said:
I didn’t say anything about apostasy. I have no doubt that some “Islamic Law” jurists do hold such views. You can find many Muslims, Christians and Jews that hold disgusting views not fit for this millennium.

Apostasy is punishable by death in the Bible:

If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

But that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
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Difference being you will be hard pushed to find many christians that would actually endorse such a view.

The same can not be said of Muslims as seen by laws governing such a crime in Muslim countries.
 
Just a little note for those bringing up Charlie Hebdo as if it was some innocent publication which lampooned Islam in the name of free speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/03/france.pressandpublishing

These quotes are from Maurice Sinet AKA Siné a cartoonist for the publication who was sacked for being anti-semitic.

'Yes, I am anti-Semitic and I am not scared to admit it... I want all Jews to live in fear, unless they are pro-Palestinian. Let them die.'

He also said:

homosexuals smell of the 'shithouse' and that 'pulling the toilet chain is the only choice'.

He received death threats from the JDL.
 
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