Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

[blueinsa]

Just a little note for those bringing up Charlie Hebdo as if it was some innocent publication which lampooned Islam in the name of free speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/03/france.pressandpublishing

These quotes are from Maurice Sinet AKA Siné a cartoonist for the publication who was sacked for being anti-semitic.

'Yes, I am anti-Semitic and I am not scared to admit it... I want all Jews to live in fear, unless they are pro-Palestinian. Let them die.'

He also said:

homosexuals smell of the 'shithouse' and that 'pulling the toilet chain is the only choice'.

He received death threats from the JDL.

Repugnant views but it does not excuse the terror attack on them.

 

[andyhinch]

Just a little note for those bringing up Charlie Hebdo as if it was some innocent publication which lampooned Islam in the name of free speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/03/france.pressandpublishing

These quotes are from Maurice Sinet AKA Siné a cartoonist for the publication who was sacked for being anti-semitic.

'Yes, I am anti-Semitic and I am not scared to admit it... I want all Jews to live in fear, unless they are pro-Palestinian. Let them die.'

He also said:

homosexuals smell of the 'shithouse' and that 'pulling the toilet chain is the only choice'.

He received death threats from the JDL.

Hardly warrants mass murder though does it ? Be more than happy if he found his way to jail though.

 

[urban genie]

Back on topic Savid Javi this morning has decided the party have no case to answer

Firstly as he is a muslim and home secretary, this proves tories don't hate muslims.

Secondly he doesn't recognise the BCM as representing muslims in general.


Great arguement there savid.

So these instances that were in the letter sent(listed below) can be ignored because you don't acknowledge the group that raised them.

 5 April: Mike Payne, who shared an article which called Muslims ‘parasites’ who ‘live off the state and breed like rabbits’.
 17 April: Alexander van Terheyden, who called Islam a ‘violent political ideology’ comparable to fascism and communism.
 20 April: Darren Harrison, who was alleged to have links to Generation Identity, an anti-Islam organisation with strong links to far-right groups across Europe.
 24 April: Phillipa Auton, who retweeted a tweet from Tommy Robinson and tweeted
‘Revoke Muslim immigration, repatriate and secure European borders..’ as a means of keeping Europe safe.
 25 April: Peter Lucey who liked a page by right-wing extremist Tommy Robinson and Geert Wilders, the anti-Muslim Dutch politician, and made a number of posts about Islam and the English Defence League.
 27 April: Nick Sundin, who tweeted the ‘Prophet Mohammed was a ‘f****** paedophile’
 1 May: Karen Sunderland, who called Islam ‘the new Nazism’.
 1 May: David Boston posted a picture of bacon hanging on a door handle as a way to 'protect your
house from terrorism'.
 23 May: Stephen Goldsack had formerly been the “Scottish security adviser” for the BNP in 2001, which led to the Muslim Council of Scotland accusing the Conservative Party of a “deep probmem of racism and islamaphobia"

This is what they want addressing I cannot see why this should be brushed off by the home secretary.

Every poster must agree these are distastefull and some of them are very offensive comments/actions

 

[Metal Biker]

Back on topic Savid Javi this morning has decided the party have no case to answer

Firstly as he is a muslim and home secretary, this proves tories don't hate muslims.

Secondly he doesn't recognise the BCM as representing muslims in general.


Great arguement there savid.

So these instances that were in the letter sent(listed below) can be ignored because you don't acknowledge the group that raised them.

 5 April: Mike Payne, who shared an article which called Muslims ‘parasites’ who ‘live off the state and breed like rabbits’.
 17 April: Alexander van Terheyden, who called Islam a ‘violent political ideology’ comparable to fascism and communism.
 20 April: Darren Harrison, who was alleged to have links to Generation Identity, an anti-Islam organisation with strong links to far-right groups across Europe.
 24 April: Phillipa Auton, who retweeted a tweet from Tommy Robinson and tweeted
‘Revoke Muslim immigration, repatriate and secure European borders..’ as a means of keeping Europe safe.
 25 April: Peter Lucey who liked a page by right-wing extremist Tommy Robinson and Geert Wilders, the anti-Muslim Dutch politician, and made a number of posts about Islam and the English Defence League.
 27 April: Nick Sundin, who tweeted the ‘Prophet Mohammed was a ‘f****** paedophile’
 1 May: Karen Sunderland, who called Islam ‘the new Nazism’.
 1 May: David Boston posted a picture of bacon hanging on a door handle as a way to 'protect your
house from terrorism'.
 23 May: Stephen Goldsack had formerly been the “Scottish security adviser” for the BNP in 2001, which led to the Muslim Council of Scotland accusing the Conservative Party of a “deep probmem of racism and islamaphobia"

This is what they want addressing I cannot see why this should be brushed off by the home secretary.

Every poster must agree these are distastefull and some of them are very offensive comments/actions

Okay, as has been done with the likes of Livingston, Shah and Abbott in the past, i'll break down each comment as I find it, with the overlying understanding that these are considered as examples of racism by the Muslim Council of Britain.

Mike Payne: Unforgivable, hope he was fired and no longer an MP, for any party.
Terheyden: Opinion, he's being critical of Islam the religion, not Muslims in general. People have compared Tories to Fascists. Not racism to me.
Harrison: Alleged is the key word there, and again being against Islam does not mean racism.
Auton: Sounds rather nationalistic, genuine twattish comment, deserves scorn.
Lucey: again, being against Islam does not constitute racism. It seems like the Muslim Council of Britain is against people being critical of their religion, rather than outing instances of racism, which again, without context, this isn't.
Sundin: Critical opinion, hard to argue against. Ties in to ridiculing the religion we discussed earlier. Not an example of racism like the MCB is claiming.
Sunderland: Critical opinion again, not racism.
Boston: Insensitive, prejudiced and insulting. Could be argued as being racist, absolutely.
Goldsack: Probably cause for concern, definitely.

In truth a number of those instances can be ignored because they are critical of the religion, not making assumptions or demonising Muslims in general. The MCB does not like people insulting their religion, well suck it up, buttercup. Christians and Jews have to deal with it all the time. It's when you start saying that Muslims have no right to be here, have no right to believe what they want to believe, should have their beliefs suppressed or are in some way tarnished for doing so and should be treated differently, that's when you enter in the same criticisms the Jewish Labour groups had about the Labour Party recently.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

We were talking about culture and how religion is deeply imbedded into that culture. Morocco and North Africa in general has a different culture to Arab countries. I should know because I am part Algerian and have lived in both Algeria and Saudi Arabia. North Africans are not Arab, though I fully appreciate that some label themselves Arab and give their children Arab names.

Let me give you a tangible example to demonstrate the difference. North African Muslims generally celebrate the birth of Mohammed. Saudis and Arabs in general consider this completely forbidden for two reasons:

1. Mohammed was said to have died on the same day that he was born and so celebrating that day they consider to be celebrating his death.
2. It is forbidden to celebrate anything other than Eid. That includes things like birthdays.

I don't even get what you're arguing now. Your original post said "Muslim and Arab countries" which means what you said was by definition including Muslims countries that were not Arab. But now you're making the distinction between Saudi Arabia and Algeria, which is exactly the point I was making in the first place.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Secondly he doesn't recognise the BCM as representing muslims in general.

To be fair, he has a point there. The BCMs are an unelected pressure group that will say anything to make themselves relevant.

 

[Metal Biker]

This would be the same Muslim Council of Britain which refused to take part in Holocaust Memorial Day for many years, called for the day to be scrapped entirely in 2005, called the Holocaust a political event which glorifies the State of Israel, opposed repealing Section 28 stating that "homosexual practice as equivalent to marriage or in a morally neutral way is deeply offensive to Muslims" and only supported their right to oppose homosexuality before granting approval of their backing, and is generally dispised by the majority of British Muslims?

And i'm supposed to be concerned about what THEY are concerned about?

 

[bluethrunthru]

I hardly think that Sajid Javids claim that because he is a Muslim and Home Secretary can be proof that the Conservative Party has no Islamophobia within its ranks - given the size and diversity of that party, right down to local association members, it stretches credibility that he could know every nook and cranny and its views. I have one neighbour who is a local Con Club member who has expressed to me his personal view that Sajid Javid should not be Home Sec because he is a Muslim and he doesn't think he will act in the countries best interests against Islamic terrorists. So if you like there's one example that contradicts Mr Javid. I have expressed to my neighbour that his views are unsavoury and maybe he should consider resigning from the party to which his response was along the lines of " thats what a communist would say".

It seems odd when you consider this and complaints against Labour and Corbyn - these points were raised by by Baroness Warsi and seem to have been pretty much dismissed in the press - however when Ruth Smeeth raised the anti-semitism issue in Labour she was roundly championed in the press for speaking out. Complete double standards but not surprising really. Onr thing I would say is that the Tories do need to learn from their own attacks on Labour because unless they respond with something better than a denial from a cabinet minister based solely on the fact that because he is Muslim the Tory party has no Islamophobia in it ( though he does accept there is Islamophobia in the UK - presumably exclusively outside the Tory Party ) this story will only run and run.

 

[bluethrunthru]

This would be the same Muslim Council of Britain which refused to take part in Holocaust Memorial Day for many years, called for the day to be scrapped entirely in 2005, called the Holocaust a political event which glorifies the State of Israel, opposed repealing Section 28 stating that "homosexual practice as equivalent to marriage or in a morally neutral way is deeply offensive to Muslims" and only supported their right to oppose homosexuality before granting approval of their backing, and is generally dispised by the majority of British Muslims?

And i'm supposed to be concerned about what THEY are concerned about?

The MCB are just a pressure group masquerading as a representative body really - the UK Govt hasn't engaged with them for donkeys years - a process started by the last Labour Govt I understand.

 

[urban genie]

The MCB are just a pressure group masquerading as a representative body really - the UK Govt hasn't engaged with them for donkeys years - a process started by the last Labour Govt I understand.

They are a pressure group and personally not one I care for, however just because this has been raised by them doesn't mean it should not be addressed