JFK

[BlueDeadHead]

It did not explode

Here are bullet fragments from the Warren Commission.

 

[better dead than red]

Real facts and sensible material as opposed to internet shite for those so inclined

and a brilliant detailed study of Oswald and his life, including his defection to Russia and return, and the run up to the assassination, done by a proper respected writer
https://g.co/kgs/WD45Kw

You may not believe this but "proper respected writers" also have biasses. If said writers set out to write a book on something they have an opinion about it, more often than not, their conclusions will reflect these biasses.

How much did you read of the "internet shite?"

Did you see the letter from then Congressman Richard Nixon's office asking that Jack Rubenstein (aka Ruby) not be called to testify before the House UnAmerican Activities Committee because he was employed by Nixon?

Did you see the photo of Oswald with David Ferry? There is a lot there to read and consider.

The website owner might not be 100% correct on everything. But, I don't think all of it can be dismissed as "shite". Then again, I try to keep an open mind. That is why I didn't dismiss your criticism out of hand about someone with extensive military training re: Oswald's shooting. I instead asked you a set of questions to see if maybe you knew what you were making a judgement about.

 

[TueartsOHK]

The only thing i'm not fully convinced off is that LHO actually pulled the trigger. His arrest (& how quick it was), his demeanour at the station and then his subsequent murder give me doubts. Also the huge amount of evidence he left seems to be 'too much' to me in some respects. It reminds me of the that Jack Reacher film in a way (like with the nickel found in the parking machine).

Maybe there's a huge amount of evidence because he did it? He was caught quickly because he was missing from the employee count in the School book depository after the assassination and some employees reported that he was on the sixth floor that morning. Plus it doesn't help when you shoot a policeman who was following up on the APB. But if they really wanted hard evidence they could have arranged for a photograph of him aiming out of the window.

I will buy your argument if you can explain the full metal jacket problem.

I can't Blue. My knowledge of ballistics is limited and like you I would have expected a FMJ not to explode into fragments. The Warren Commission and other independent reports have all said that the head shot could have been achieved with a FMJ bullet (and conducted tests to prove it) but there's a lot of others that dispute this. I still feel that there is a massive weight of evidence against him:

It was his gun with his palm print and he smuggled it into work that morning in a package
The bullets are from his gun and the brown packaging is found in the snipers nest
He had previous - attempted assassination of a General Walker
He goes to work leaving his wedding ring on the dresser and other valuables
He legs it immediately after the assassination
When questioned he shoots a cop

I don't think he'd been planning it and I don't think he had anything specifically against Kennedy. They'd only changed the motorcade route to go through Dealey Plaza a few days before and a family friend got him the job there. Reading about him though he was a pretty despicable character- unstable, wife beater ....

 

[johnmc]

Pretty sure it's accepted FMJ bullets whilst designed not to, can leave fragments dependant on what they are hitting, the speed and angle they hit at.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Maybe there's a huge amount of evidence because he did it? He was caught quickly because he was missing from the employee count in the School book depository after the assassination and some employees reported that he was on the sixth floor that morning. Plus it doesn't help when you shoot a policeman who was following up on the APB. But if they really wanted hard evidence they could have arranged for a photograph of him aiming out of the window.



I can't Blue. My knowledge of ballistics is limited and like you I would have expected a FMJ not to explode into fragments. The Warren Commission and other independent reports have all said that the head shot could have been achieved with a FMJ bullet (and conducted tests to prove it) but there's a lot of others that dispute this. I still feel that there is a massive weight of evidence against him:

It was his gun with his palm print and he smuggled it into work that morning in a package
The bullets are from his gun and the brown packaging is found in the snipers nest
He had previous - attempted assassination of a General Walker
He goes to work leaving his wedding ring on the dresser and other valuables
He legs it immediately after the assassination
When questioned he shoots a cop

I don't think he'd been planning it and I don't think he had anything specifically against Kennedy. They'd only changed the motorcade route to go through Dealey Plaza a few days before and a family friend got him the job there. Reading about him though he was a pretty despicable character- unstable, wife beater ....

Don't get me wrong. Oswald absolutely was involved. There is no doubt that he fired the round that went through JFK and Connely because they found it in Connely fully intact. My point is simply that if we know he shot Kennedy in the neck (which we do) we can't accept that the kill shot came from the same gun because the round functioned (exploded) in a very different way. Until someone can explain the FMJ problem, there is a gaping hole in the story that Oswald was a lone gunman.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Pretty sure it's accepted FMJ bullets whilst designed not to, can leave fragments dependant on what they are hitting, the speed and angle they hit at.

Forensic pathologist, Dr. Jimmy W. Green, said that “Full metal jacket bullets (like those Oswald allegedly used) fired from medium-to-high-velocity rifles do not fragment into numerous pieces.”


Dr. Eric Berg, another medical examiner, said: “In x-rays of gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track (as seen in Kennedy) virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition (such as what Oswald allegedly used). A lead snowstorm on x-ray (such as Kennedy had) rules out full metal jacketed ammunition.” Forensic expert and detective Shaun Roach said: “Due to the inherent strength of the 6.5 mm Carcano jacket, I believe that it would not shear off and fragment upon entering the head. The head wound of President Kennedy has all the hallmarks of 5.56 mm bullet performance. I would expect that if JFK were struck in the head by a 6.5 Carcano bullet, the bullet would have crashed into the skull, out the other side, intact, and continued on till it hit something else.” And finally, let's listen to Dr. Cyril Wecht:

“It is my experience with bullets, including bullets that are not as powerful and fully jacketed as this one [the 6.5 mm Carcano bullet], that they do not explode into dozens of pieces. They may break into two or three large fragments or pieces, but they don’t just disintegrate like that [like the missile that left dozens of fragments in Kennedy’s skull]. And so when you say it [the bullet or bullets that struck Kennedy in the head] behaved much more like a soft or hollow-point, I agree with you. I’ve been saying that for a long time.”

 

[johnmc]

Forensic pathologist, Dr. Jimmy W. Green, said that “Full metal jacket bullets (like those Oswald allegedly used) fired from medium-to-high-velocity rifles do not fragment into numerous pieces.”


Dr. Eric Berg, another medical examiner, said: “In x-rays of gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track (as seen in Kennedy) virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition (such as what Oswald allegedly used). A lead snowstorm on x-ray (such as Kennedy had) rules out full metal jacketed ammunition.” Forensic expert and detective Shaun Roach said: “Due to the inherent strength of the 6.5 mm Carcano jacket, I believe that it would not shear off and fragment upon entering the head. The head wound of President Kennedy has all the hallmarks of 5.56 mm bullet performance. I would expect that if JFK were struck in the head by a 6.5 Carcano bullet, the bullet would have crashed into the skull, out the other side, intact, and continued on till it hit something else.” And finally, let's listen to Dr. Cyril Wecht:

“It is my experience with bullets, including bullets that are not as powerful and fully jacketed as this one [the 6.5 mm Carcano bullet], that they do not explode into dozens of pieces. They may break into two or three large fragments or pieces, but they don’t just disintegrate like that [like the missile that left dozens of fragments in Kennedy’s skull]. And so when you say it [the bullet or bullets that struck Kennedy in the head] behaved much more like a soft or hollow-point, I agree with you. I’ve been saying that for a long time.”

It is true that a full metal jacketed bullet was designed not to fragment when passing through soft tissue at high velocity, or bone at low velocity.

However, the full metal jacketed round that struck the President's head made impact traveling at nearly 1800 feet-per-second, just 200 feet-per-second shy of the full muzzle velocity of Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, and immediately encountered dense skull bone. Further, the bullet hit the skull bone at an obtuse angle. Because of the angle, the speed, and the encounter with dense skull bone, the metal jacket surrounding the missile ruptured, exposing its lead core. The bullet and its exposed core continued to break up as it passed through the President's brain, leaving a trail of fine, dust-like fragments. Two large mangled fragments representing the nose and base of that full metal jacketed bullet were later found on the floor of the limousine.

By contrast, Governor Connally's right wrist radius bone (a less dense bone than skull bone) was struck sideways by a bullet traveling at just 1000-800 feet-per-second, a velocity much lower than the bullet that struck the President's head. The Connally wrist bullet was traveling slower because it had previously passed through the soft tissue of the President's neck and tumbled through the Governor's chest. Consequently, because of its slower speed, the side impact angle, and the reduced density of the wrist bone (as compared to skull bone) it encountered - this full metal jacketed bullet - dubbed the single bullet - suffered far less fragmentation.

 

[TueartsOHK]

In the Warren Commission report tests were carried out on skulls filled with gelatin and draped with simulated hair. They used Oswalds rifle and bullets and carried out test shots about 260 feet away. A Doctor Olivier reviewed the damage and concluded that the damage was very similar to the wounds on the presidents head. Also the small fragments left closely resembled those found in the limousine.

Edit: Might have been cheaper to drive an open top bus full of scousers through Dealey Plaza and marksmen taking pot shots from the sixth floor :-)

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

My point exactly. He did not insist the plane remained in Dallas until he was sworn in--there is no need to swear him in as he immediately became president upon JFK's death. He insisted that they not leave Dallas without Jackie and JFK on board.

He wanted to do it primarily because he was concerned the assassination may have been an attack by the Soviet Union and wanted to display a public display of continuity and strength lest any foreign powers think there was confusion and a power vacuum Johnson actually sought the advice of Robert Kennedy, who was eager that he take the oath straight away. Again, there are factual reasons for things, that have been twisted and become part of this nonsense. He demanded that a lady named Sarah Hughes, a judge who he knew, come to the plane to swear him in, hence the delay. She had to be contacted, found, and transported there

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Here are bullet fragments from the Warren Commission.

If there was an exploding bullet there would be more fragments than those 3 which are consistent with what happened. A bullet smashed into his skull and ripped out a hole which the first doctor who saw Kennedy in the emergency room said he could fit his fist in. So small fragmentation. Again, entirely normal. No exploding bullet.