Jose for City? (merged)

[matt_MCFC]

Jose for City?

Personally I think absolute points tally is meaningless, placing is what counts but I've seen you use point tally (while ignoring our higher placing) in an attempt to quantify our lack of progression under Mancini so it's a bit hypocritical of you to dismiss the same for Jose.

You're mixing up two different arguments. People keep telling me we're better because we're third, when we're only in that position because Chelsea have dropped 10 points from last season. That doesn't make US a better team.

If Jose had failed to win the league then you could say he'd done worse.

That's totally the wrong way of looking at it. We are where we are on merit. It makes no difference what everybody else has done. We have been the 3rd best team in the league so far this season

 

[sweep]

Re: Jose for City?

Personally I think absolute points tally is meaningless, placing is what counts but I've seen you use point tally (while ignoring our higher placing) in an attempt to quantify our lack of progression under Mancini so it's a bit hypocritical of you to dismiss the same for Jose.

You're mixing up two different arguments. People keep telling me we're better because we're third, when we're only in that position because Chelsea have dropped 10 points from last season. That doesn't make US a better team.

If Jose had failed to win the league then you could say he'd done worse.

In a league situation I'd say there's more to it than one team dropping points, many many variables. Anyway it's placing that counts, absolute points is meaningless even though it might suit your argument sometimes.

Off to the game now, COME ON BLUES!

 

[Mancio]

Re: Jose for City?

Personally I think absolute points tally is meaningless, placing is what counts but I've seen you use point tally (while ignoring our higher placing) in an attempt to quantify our lack of progression under Mancini so it's a bit hypocritical of you to dismiss the same for Jose.

You're mixing up two different arguments. People keep telling me we're better because we're third, when we're only in that position because Chelsea have dropped 10 points from last season. That doesn't make US a better team.

If Jose had failed to win the league then you could say he'd done worse.

an intelligent and smart guy like you are should already had made himself a simple question :

"why this season almost ALL the best teams (outside England too) have achieved less points than past season ?"

maybe the words "world championship" would had means something also for you.

 

[ST Coleridge]

Re: Jose for City?

You could say that we'd have won the league with Mourinho, but it's pure speculation and no sort of basis for a proper debate. As Mancio says, he's actually doing a little worse than Pellegrino this season.

It was an answer to a question someone asked. I think we all know it's pure speculation.

I don't agree that Carlos has won us points 'in spite' of Mancini - many didn't buy into the idea of playing him as a lone forward (massive clamour on here to play him 'in the hole' behind Adebayor), so Mancini can be thanked for that. Also, Mou's current team are massively reliant on Ronaldo.

Doesn't matter where Tevez plays. The point I was making is that he has single handedly won us games we were never likely to win without him in spite the managers best efforts.

Like Mancini, he's got a solid base of 2 DMs, with a talented forward four that are allowed to just play. But whereas Mou has got Ronaldo, Kaka, Di Maria, Alonso, Ozil, Khedira, Bob's got Silva, Milner, Johnson, Yaya, Barry, De Jong... I love our players, but we're not going to compare unless given a little time.

The difference is that Mou plays Ozil in the 'hole' in a 4231 - Mancini plays Yaya. Yaya isn't picked because of his attacking qualities, he's picked to play there because Mancini can have him 'sit' when need be.

The crux of the matter is this - 6 of our likely starting eleven are in their first season in England. Give them time. You can argue that Mancini should have settled them in quicker, but how many tremendous players have taken a season to adapt to the pace of the PL? Ronaldo, Drogba, Henry spring to mind!

The debate isn't really about the players, it's about whether the manager is good enough.

1) I'm glad we're agreed that it's a bit too hypothetical.
2) Has Ronaldo not 'singlehandedly' won games for Mou? Messi for Barca? What's the point in having good players?
3) Agreed, I'm not a fan of a pushed-up Yaya. It's not like he even pitches in that much defensively. Suppose it's an attempt at increased solidity, but I would drop one of the three DMs/CMs in 90% of games.
4) Ah, but the entire debate on the manager comes down to the standard of performances. Given that no-one can argue that we've been quite good defensively, then it's specifically the attacking performances. And we seem to all agree that the problem is the speed at which we move the ball when attacking....

Therefore, is it not reasonable to suggest that Silva, Balotelli, Yaya, Dzeko might combine much more effectively following a full season in England? As with Drogba, Henry, Ronaldo and many more?

 

[80s Shorts]

Re: Jose for City?

You could say that we'd have won the league with Mourinho, but it's pure speculation and no sort of basis for a proper debate. As Mancio says, he's actually doing a little worse than Pellegrino this season.

It was an answer to a question someone asked. I think we all know it's pure speculation.

I don't agree that Carlos has won us points 'in spite' of Mancini - many didn't buy into the idea of playing him as a lone forward (massive clamour on here to play him 'in the hole' behind Adebayor), so Mancini can be thanked for that. Also, Mou's current team are massively reliant on Ronaldo.

Doesn't matter where Tevez plays. The point I was making is that he has single handedly won us games we were never likely to win without him in spite the managers best efforts.

Like Mancini, he's got a solid base of 2 DMs, with a talented forward four that are allowed to just play. But whereas Mou has got Ronaldo, Kaka, Di Maria, Alonso, Ozil, Khedira, Bob's got Silva, Milner, Johnson, Yaya, Barry, De Jong... I love our players, but we're not going to compare unless given a little time.

The difference is that Mou plays Ozil in the 'hole' in a 4231 - Mancini plays Yaya. Yaya isn't picked because of his attacking qualities, he's picked to play there because Mancini can have him 'sit' when need be.

The crux of the matter is this - 6 of our likely starting eleven are in their first season in England. Give them time. You can argue that Mancini should have settled them in quicker, but how many tremendous players have taken a season to adapt to the pace of the PL? Ronaldo, Drogba, Henry spring to mind!

The debate isn't really about the players, it's about whether the manager is good enough.

You cant say the debate isnt about the players and then do exactly that.

So a world class City player makes an impression on many games and its in spite if Mancini, but when other players perform poorly its because of Mancini.

Ok.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Re: Jose for City?

A big fook off YES please......

Mancini's signings have generally been very poor,especially his choice of player and the attributes they provide the squad,his tactics and formations are bizarre and,evidently,his motivational abilities have expired as the team looks like it couldn't give a fook,some more than others.....

 

[redmizzle]

Re: Jose for City?

Come 7 o'clock tonight, potentially out of the Cup or a replay, this thread will be an interesting revisit.

Uh oh.

 

[persvenality cult]

Re: Jose for City?

Come 7 o'clock tonight, potentially out of the Cup or a replay, this thread will be an interesting revisit.

Uh oh.

Aye. Talk about a depressed outlook.

 

[Bigga]

Re: Jose for City?

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

How the fook is it that FAT SAM nails everything on the head with what's happening with the team and why it is happening and yet so called City fans don't understand the plain simple facts in front of them??

Fat Sam: "The team are still gelling and getting to know each other as is the manager still gelling with the players under his FIRST FULL SEASON!!"

Some City fans: The players don't like his tactics. If Mourinho is free, he's coming.

ADUG are not stupid. He's staying, regardless.

 

[bluefandk]

Re: Jose for City?

Come 7 o'clock tonight, potentially out of the Cup or a replay, this thread will be an interesting revisit.

Lol its a shame Mancini spoiled your fun, you must feel devestated.