Keir Starmer

[hilts]

Only time will tell. Either Starmer is really moving towards the right, but I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt until that becomes truthful.

He could be showing that anybody is welcome in the Labour Party and trying to take tribalism out of it, whilst trying to get as big a majority as possible.

If he achieves a huge majority, then he’s got carte blanche to map out how the country goes in the next decades really.

If, at that point, he’s still pandering to all and sundry, I’ll be as critical of him as everyone else.

Yeah its a quandary either he is moving to the right or is just simply a liar. Score:-)
As we have had a rather amusing pick a side debate on here and I like you there is a third option. Keep it to yourself though I want to see how many years it takes the others to cotton on to this seemingly impossible position you morally sound posters have been put in.

The scenario:-)

The Tories are shit and have ruined the country. Labour seem to be moving to the right or are just liars. I have to pick one. What to do. What to do.

Here's an idea the day after the vote Labour will be in charge, your own constituency will have gone to whoever dependant on where you live and FPTP.
If you as an individual voted for the Labour, Tories or anyone else you wake up to exactly the same result.

Now as you are aware of this and so are others on here you don't have to vote Labour or anyone else for matter.

You stand point could be I will be glad the Tories are going but am uncomfortable giving my support to.......

So the only reason for an individual on here to vote for Labour as an example is if they believe in what they are currently doing or they need to be seen to support the winning side to posters on a football forum.

Voting for a party and giving the excuse that it's based on getting rid of the twats in power just doesn't have any validity to it on an individual basis.

Let other people sell their souls you needn't take part.

 

[BobKowalski]

The official Tories are predicted to win 13, the actual Tories 500 or so.

Love how you guys really hate winning…must be agony right now :)

 

[hilts]

Winning elections is solely a Tory aspiration? Well, explains why Labour rarely do so, I guess. Perhaps I should aspire to self-preening and parading my ‘superior morality and decency’ rather than trying to make a practical difference.

But, who am I, a mere mortal, to lecture the great and the good on the best way forward for this United Kingdom of ours? Better to die in battle with righteousness on our side then stoop to kicking the living fuck out of the incompetent fuckers currently running the country.

Ah, who am I kidding. I’m all in for kicking the living fuck out of the Tories. We are who we are, comrade.

First sentence, never said it so I genuinely never read the rest.

 

[Rascal]

I’m starting to see why Labour rarely win elections. I’m not even sure die hard Labour members even want to win elections and bother themselves with all that messy governing business.

For all the talk about helping people it doesn’t seem to extend to actually doing anything. It’s like an extended episode of Citizen Smith :)

The left do not win as much as they should because the left has principles, the right would sell their granny for power.

If i sacrifice my principals for power then i become no better than the right wing.

At the last elections where the left almost won, the right of the Labour party were gleeful in failure, the accusation of not wanting to win is rarely ever attached to them, in the way us on the left are always presumed to be as you say.

The liberal left have always been traitors to the working class movement, in my eyes they are as big a danger as the far right, because the far right never succeeds without the acquiescence of the liberal left and the middle classes.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yeah its a quandary either he is moving to the right or is just simply a liar. Score:-)
As we have had a rather amusing pick a side debate on here and I like you there is a third option. Keep it to yourself though I want to see how many years it takes the others to cotton on to this seemingly impossible position you morally sound posters have been put in.

The scenario:-)

The Tories are shit and have ruined the country. Labour seem to be moving to the right or are just liars. I have to pick one. What to do. What to do.

Here's an idea the day after the vote Labour will be in charge, your own constituency will have gone to whoever dependant on where you live and FPTP.
If you as an individual voted for the Labour, Tories or anyone else you wake up to exactly the same result.

Now as you are aware of this and so are others on here you don't have to vote Labour or anyone else for matter.

You stand point could be I will be glad the Tories are going but am uncomfortable giving my support to.......

So the only reason for an individual on here to vote for Labour as an example is if they believe in what they are currently doing or they need to be seen to support the winning side to posters on a football forum.

Voting for a party and giving the excuse that it's based on getting rid of the twats in power just doesn't have any validity to it on an individual basis.

Let other people sell their souls you needn't take part.

‘And, lo, I shall rise above you and rain my disdain on those wanting to make things better, for I am the light and the glory and my vanity and ego shall triumph above all…’

So speak Precious, an unsullied soul.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Yeah its a quandary either he is moving to the right or is just simply a liar. Score:-)
As we have had a rather amusing pick a side debate on here and I like you there is a third option. Keep it to yourself though I want to see how many years it takes the others to cotton on to this seemingly impossible position you morally sound posters have been put in.

The scenario:-)

The Tories are shit and have ruined the country. Labour seem to be moving to the right or are just liars. I have to pick one. What to do. What to do.

Here's an idea the day after the vote Labour will be in charge, your own constituency will have gone to whoever dependant on where you live and FPTP.
If you as an individual voted for the Labour, Tories or anyone else you wake up to exactly the same result.

Now as you are aware of this and so are others on here you don't have to vote Labour or anyone else for matter.

You stand point could be I will be glad the Tories are going but am uncomfortable giving my support to.......

So the only reason for an individual on here to vote for Labour as an example is if they believe in what they are currently doing or they need to be seen to support the winning side to posters on a football forum.

Voting for a party and giving the excuse that it's based on getting rid of the twats in power just doesn't have any validity to it on an individual basis.

Let other people sell their souls you needn't take part.

Sometimes governments need time out to refocus though. The Tories have run their course and need time to find credible candidates for 2029/30.

No one will care how Labour got in if they start to realign the country and people can actually see a future.

Whether that happens is yet to be known.

 

[BobKowalski]

The left do not win as much as they should because the left has principles, the right would sell their granny for power.

If i sacrifice my principals for power then i become no better than the right wing.

At the last elections where the left almost won, the right of the Labour party were gleeful in failure, the accusation of not wanting to win is rarely ever attached to them, in the way us on the left are always presumed to be as you say.

The liberal left have always been traitors to the working class movement, in my eyes they are as big a danger as the far right, because the far right never succeeds without the acquiescence of the liberal left and the middle classes.

To help people you need to be in a position of power to actually help people. Continually failing to achieve that position of power is an abdication of responsibility. To willingly fail is a selfish act. It elevates the individual over the common good.

 

[bluenova]

Yeah its a quandary either he is moving to the right or is just simply a liar. Score:-)
As we have had a rather amusing pick a side debate on here and I like you there is a third option. Keep it to yourself though I want to see how many years it takes the others to cotton on to this seemingly impossible position you morally sound posters have been put in.

The scenario:-)

The Tories are shit and have ruined the country. Labour seem to be moving to the right or are just liars. I have to pick one. What to do. What to do.

Here's an idea the day after the vote Labour will be in charge, your own constituency will have gone to whoever dependant on where you live and FPTP.
If you as an individual voted for the Labour, Tories or anyone else you wake up to exactly the same result.

Now as you are aware of this and so are others on here you don't have to vote Labour or anyone else for matter.

You stand point could be I will be glad the Tories are going but am uncomfortable giving my support to.......

So the only reason for an individual on here to vote for Labour as an example is if they believe in what they are currently doing or they need to be seen to support the winning side to posters on a football forum.

Voting for a party and giving the excuse that it's based on getting rid of the twats in power just doesn't have any validity to it on an individual basis.

Let other people sell their souls you needn't take part.

What mental gymnastics you have to come up with to justify your moral high ground.

I always thought that collective action relied on individuals doing the right thing at the same time, but am now reassured that I can fuck off all the hard stuff, as everything just happens the way it was going to happen anyway.

 

[hilts]

Sometimes governments need time out to refocus though. The Tories have run their course and need time to find credible candidates for 2029/30.

No one will care how Labour got in if they start to realign the country and people can actually see a future.

Whether that happens is yet to be known.

None of that has addressed the point of the post though. I will repeat briefly no individual should feel the need to vote for any one party or pick a side.

Now if people keep coming up with crap like you have to pick a side or well I just want rid of the tories I will remind them its either flawed logic or dishonesty.

 

[hilts]

‘And, lo, I shall rise above you and rain my disdain on those wanting to make things better, for I am the light and the glory and my vanity and ego shall triumph above all…’

So speak Precious, an unsullied soul.

If you can't argue against the points which you can't then pipe down Tory Boy.