Keir Starmer

[Ancient Citizen]

I think this was the label that was thrown most at people who voted to leave whether or not they they believed they had sound economic or political reasons for voting leave. I think it shows that we live in a time where a democratic vote is only legitimate if you voted the 'right' way. I suppose that the Leavers would have called the Remainers idiots had the vote gone the other way!

True, and what tickles me about the idiot tag, is the uncomfortable fact that whilst many Labour voters
hated Corbyn and voted for Boris, those that did vote for Jezza are apparently, not idiots according to
the idiot mongers.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I said £350 mill was one of the reasons? No I didn't, I said it was a proposition, which it was, the only
ones who obsessed about it were those who repeated it incessantly after their loss. You're implying
that we all voted out because of it, as if it was some tipping point, which is bollocks, the reasons for leaving
were there well before any campaign, there wan't any 'Oh look at that bus, that's clinched it' moments.
Did you believe your job was going down the Swanee, did you believe your tax would increase by 10%
or that we could be at war, so it's best if I vote to remain, you know all that sort of crap?
Probably not, as these are scaremongering tactics, the bus was an aspect of that.
I know it's incorrect, you knew the above was, nobody was hoodwinked, they simply don't agree with you, which is infuriating, but you have to accept these things in life.
Oh, and calling everyone idiots because they don't like your political viewpoints is a common theme,
and it ensures the caller's viewpoint becomes irrelevant.

I don't think people that don't agree with me are idiots.

But people who think we'll be better off economically being out of the EU are idiots.

And people who think immigration from non-EU countries will go down because of Brexit are idiots.

People were angry, they had grievances, many of them completely understandable.

The thing I'm angry about, is that the Leave campaign exploited those anger and grievances and manipulated people in to thinking they would all be solved by leaving the EU. They won't.

 

[Shaelumstash]

You might actually be correct in everything you say here. But do you not realise that by characterising remainers as idiots who have been manipulated /hoodwinked/bigoted/thick etc. it tends to polarise the debate and make them dig their heels in and be less receptive to your valid points? I'll risk being rude to you now (for which I apologise in advance), but this is a blind arrogance that constitutes a form of stupidity in itself, characterised by failure to counter the leave narrative which is as full of holes as you suggest. I put it to you then that your sort of narrative is even more stupid than the side of a bus bigotry and has directly led to the success of leave - stupid begets stupid, and you reap as you sow.

I'm not angry at the people who voted Leave.

I understand a lot of people had a huge amount of grievances, and many of them are completely legitimate.

I'm angry that the Leave campaign deliberately exploited those fears, angers and grievances and promoted the idea that leaving the EU would solve all of those problems.

You don't need to apologise, I've been called a lot worse ;-)

But I'll knock it back to you and say, that Leavers constantly just press the cliché button and say "Oh, it's because of these kind of attitudes why people voted Leave" but they never offer their actual reasons for voting Leave.

Surely they've not voted Leave out of spite because Remainers are "arrogant"? There must be legitimate fears, anger, concerns etc behind it?

Again, I'm not saying people were hoodwinked in having those fears, angers or concerns. I'm saying they were hoodwinked in to thinking those things would be solved by leaving the EU.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I don't think people that don't agree with me are idiots.

But people who think we'll be better off economically being out of the EU are idiots.

And people who think immigration from non-EU countries will go down because of Brexit are idiots.

People were angry, they had grievances, many of them completely understandable.

The thing I'm angry about, is that the Leave campaign exploited those anger and grievances and manipulated people in to thinking they would all be solved by leaving the EU. They won't.

Save your anger for the remain campaign that wasted its time taking the piss out of leavers, calling them idiots, and arrogantly assuming the benefits of EU membership were obvious instead of articulating its case more effectively. Also, a failure to understand that people want to be in Europe / European - just not in the EU.

 

[mexico1970]

I'm not angry at the people who voted Leave.

I understand a lot of people had a huge amount of grievances, and many of them are completely legitimate.

I'm angry that the Leave campaign deliberately exploited those fears, angers and grievances and promoted the idea that leaving the EU would solve all of those problems.

You don't need to apologise, I've been called a lot worse ;-)

But I'll knock it back to you and say, that Leavers constantly just press the cliché button and say "Oh, it's because of these kind of attitudes why people voted Leave" but they never offer their actual reasons for voting Leave.

Surely they've not voted Leave out of spite because Remainers are "arrogant"? There must be legitimate fears, anger, concerns etc behind it?

Again, I'm not saying people were hoodwinked in having those fears, angers or concerns. I'm saying they were hoodwinked in to thinking those things would be solved by leaving the EU.

The EU has become much more than a trading bloc and that was the big question leading up to the vote, fears of an EU military and creeping federalisation were major factors in the minds of the voting public.

I voted to remain but by the end of the process I would have voted to leave if we would have been forced to take another vote, the way that politicians and the media in general portrayed leave voters was nothing short of disgraceful.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Save your anger for the remain campaign that wasted its time taking the piss out of leavers, calling them idiots, and arrogantly assuming the benefits of EU membership were obvious instead of articulating its case more effectively. Also, a failure to understand that people want to be in Europe / European - just not in the EU.

Unfortunately, the Remain campaign went for facts and truth.

It didn't cut through, and the bombast, hyperbole, bullshit and bigotry of the Leave campaign gained far more traction on social media (as it so often does, unfortunately).

I agree the Remain side ran a poor campaign, but they were constantly putting out fires of bullshit the Leave campaign were saying.

It's actually a flaw of the current democratic process that political campaigns can spread disinformation at such an exponential rate on social media and face no legal repercussions.

Hopefully the law catches up and some of these bastards can be held to account.

 

[blueinsa]

Unfortunately, the Remain campaign went for facts and truth.

It didn't cut through, and the bombast, hyperbole, bullshit and bigotry of the Leave campaign gained far more traction on social media (as it so often does, unfortunately).

I agree the Remain side ran a poor campaign, but they were constantly putting out fires of bullshit the Leave campaign were saying.

It's actually a flaw of the current democratic process that political campaigns can spread disinformation at such an exponential rate on social media and face no legal repercussions.

Hopefully the law catches up and some of these bastards can be held to account.

.....the next bus has just turned up.

 

[Metal Biker]

Unfortunately, the Remain campaign went for facts and truth.

Remain campaign ALSO went for hyperbole and shaming those who considered a vote to leave as being motivated by racism and xenophobia. That was it's core message and the majority of the voters rejected it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Remain campaign ALSO went for hyperbole and shaming those who considered a vote to leave as being motivated by racism and xenophobia. That was it's core message and the majority of the voters rejected it.

It wasn't a core message of remain, leave said it was because it suited their purpose, and it stuck.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Remain campaign ALSO went for hyperbole and shaming those who considered a vote to leave as being motivated by racism and xenophobia. That was it's core message and the majority of the voters rejected it.

Haha!