Clever I like what you did there, it was worth the hours of waiting...
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Keir Starmer
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
The reason I ask is you said this
Pretty much everyone who has got a bad thing to say about Blair brings up foreign policy, as you did, specifically the Iraq war.
I wonder how much your day to day life was affected by the government’s foreign policy from 1997-2007.
Not an awful lot
Maybe that’s why he was elected twice more after the war
Not sure if you agree with me here or not!
Still up on her twitter
At the time in feb quite a few told her it was ill advised.
The reasoning why it isn't considered the same as others who have been sanctioned for praising kniwn historical antisemites was never given.
Some may say it is irrelevant, but in my opinion in such a sensitive time it is just as bad.
Anyway Arthur low and Love are on glasto on bbc 4 so if you reply I appologies as probably won't answer till morning ;-)
Hmm I am not entirely sure it’s the same as RLB as there’s a legitimate cause to Astor, in that she was the first female MP but then again she was a Nazi ****.
Anyway I hope the civil war continues and Labour is broken up. Then I hope the actual conservatives in the Tories do the same and we can fuck off this this liberal middle ground both sit in.
Mike Cledford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2019
- Messages
- 5,248
- Team supported
- Man City
Does David Conn ever make comment on anti semitic attitudes ?
Hes always quick with his anti arab stuff and also was born and bred in the next door constituency to BLM and might therefore have some interest in her comments
Hes always quick with his anti arab stuff and also was born and bred in the next door constituency to BLM and might therefore have some interest in her comments
Rascal
El Presidente
It does feel like every time that Labour is discussed here, the debate is closed down and AS takes over the debate. Its counter culture at is most insidious.
It is fucking exasperating, I made a long post on what I think labour should do, it wasn't Corbynite, it wasnt Blairite, it contained no AS because I am not an anti-Semite, yet it was ignored and the debate once again returned to AS.
I don't talk about Israel or Palestine,i have little interest in it, I have no interest in anybodys faith as that is personal to them and I am a believer in freedom of religion, but I do believe nothing is beyond criticism, but you have to allow criticism and counter it, not close the debate down by moving the debate parameters.
It is a sign of how far the Overton window has moved on this country, its been subtle, but its happened over the last 30 years and its happened to such an extent that anything slightly left wing is dismissed as hard left. That's because the Overton window has been dragged that far to the right. The established narrative is we have no money, how will that be paid for. To counter the dragging of the overton window to the right the left has to employ more hard left tactics in bringing it back towards the centre, but it cant, because AS.
This leaves us all in a dangerous place, if the window of acceptability is already on the right, if it is dragged further right it enters the realms of nationalism and there is a growing rise in what is called National Conservatism. National Conservatism can not be described as far right because the overton window has moved so much and National Conservatism could well be mainstream thinking in no time. AS is a tool that can be used by National Conservatives to cover their tack their rightward. National Conservatism is Known for its cultural protectionism, and what do we have in our midst at the moment, the PM himself making the BLM movement about culture and National Conservatism sees the destruction of statues as being the start of the cultural wars they want, and who defends the statues? the foot soldiers of the National Conservative movement, the DFLA.
I am sure I will be dismissed as a conspiracy crank, that is exactly what National Conservatism wants you to think, it wants debate closed down and it is in reality a counter movement to the Lefts cultural identity movement. You can look up National Conservatism if you want, it is not only here that it is growing, it is becoming more widespread across Europe. Its basics are what you would probably expect from a party like UKIP with a bit of Britain First thrown in for good measure. It is overtly nationalistic but portrays itself as patriotic, I don't mean to be rude here but many do not see the distinction between nationalism and patriotism. Orwell sums it up brilliantly btw.
My point here and its been illustrated over the last few pages is that these new identarian movements are real, its dangerous and it will use any tool at its disposal to achieve its aims. If Labour can be so easily dismissed because of AS as this thread proves then the narrative of National Conservatism becomes increasingly more prevelant.
I am sure now there will be replies of how the left close down debate, like no platforming people, the education departments of the country being full of hard left Trotskyites etc, the banning of Hopkins from twitter, etc etc all being leftist examples of closing down debate. This comes from those associated with National Conservatism and promulgated through, believe it or not the idiotic anti-semitic notion of Cultural Marxism, a term I am sure you all know of now and a term that is now used widely without people understanding its origins. Its origins were in cultural bolshekivism which arose from the Frankfurt and Chicago schools of economic and political thinking. It is from these schools of thinking that arose the right wing ideology of small state free market Hayekism, which was used to counter the social consensus that arose after WW2 when the UK started the NHS, the welfare state etc etc .. These things are anathema to capitalists, they had to fight back and now you cant move in the media for right wing think tanks like the TPA, migration watch, the IEA, etc etc ran by clowns including the odious Toby Young et al.
Now, I have stated there should never be any room in the Labour party for AS, there should be no room in society for any discrimination based on faith or race, but it is being fermented and it is on the rise across all faiths and religions, it has to stop and it has to be fought and I think using AS to close down debate is dangerous.
Make of this what you will, its my honest thoughts on the matter
It is fucking exasperating, I made a long post on what I think labour should do, it wasn't Corbynite, it wasnt Blairite, it contained no AS because I am not an anti-Semite, yet it was ignored and the debate once again returned to AS.
I don't talk about Israel or Palestine,i have little interest in it, I have no interest in anybodys faith as that is personal to them and I am a believer in freedom of religion, but I do believe nothing is beyond criticism, but you have to allow criticism and counter it, not close the debate down by moving the debate parameters.
It is a sign of how far the Overton window has moved on this country, its been subtle, but its happened over the last 30 years and its happened to such an extent that anything slightly left wing is dismissed as hard left. That's because the Overton window has been dragged that far to the right. The established narrative is we have no money, how will that be paid for. To counter the dragging of the overton window to the right the left has to employ more hard left tactics in bringing it back towards the centre, but it cant, because AS.
This leaves us all in a dangerous place, if the window of acceptability is already on the right, if it is dragged further right it enters the realms of nationalism and there is a growing rise in what is called National Conservatism. National Conservatism can not be described as far right because the overton window has moved so much and National Conservatism could well be mainstream thinking in no time. AS is a tool that can be used by National Conservatives to cover their tack their rightward. National Conservatism is Known for its cultural protectionism, and what do we have in our midst at the moment, the PM himself making the BLM movement about culture and National Conservatism sees the destruction of statues as being the start of the cultural wars they want, and who defends the statues? the foot soldiers of the National Conservative movement, the DFLA.
I am sure I will be dismissed as a conspiracy crank, that is exactly what National Conservatism wants you to think, it wants debate closed down and it is in reality a counter movement to the Lefts cultural identity movement. You can look up National Conservatism if you want, it is not only here that it is growing, it is becoming more widespread across Europe. Its basics are what you would probably expect from a party like UKIP with a bit of Britain First thrown in for good measure. It is overtly nationalistic but portrays itself as patriotic, I don't mean to be rude here but many do not see the distinction between nationalism and patriotism. Orwell sums it up brilliantly btw.
My point here and its been illustrated over the last few pages is that these new identarian movements are real, its dangerous and it will use any tool at its disposal to achieve its aims. If Labour can be so easily dismissed because of AS as this thread proves then the narrative of National Conservatism becomes increasingly more prevelant.
I am sure now there will be replies of how the left close down debate, like no platforming people, the education departments of the country being full of hard left Trotskyites etc, the banning of Hopkins from twitter, etc etc all being leftist examples of closing down debate. This comes from those associated with National Conservatism and promulgated through, believe it or not the idiotic anti-semitic notion of Cultural Marxism, a term I am sure you all know of now and a term that is now used widely without people understanding its origins. Its origins were in cultural bolshekivism which arose from the Frankfurt and Chicago schools of economic and political thinking. It is from these schools of thinking that arose the right wing ideology of small state free market Hayekism, which was used to counter the social consensus that arose after WW2 when the UK started the NHS, the welfare state etc etc .. These things are anathema to capitalists, they had to fight back and now you cant move in the media for right wing think tanks like the TPA, migration watch, the IEA, etc etc ran by clowns including the odious Toby Young et al.
Now, I have stated there should never be any room in the Labour party for AS, there should be no room in society for any discrimination based on faith or race, but it is being fermented and it is on the rise across all faiths and religions, it has to stop and it has to be fought and I think using AS to close down debate is dangerous.
Make of this what you will, its my honest thoughts on the matter
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Top or near the top of the death leagues.Very easy to say, a little more difficult to prove.
Mass testing stopped on March 12.
The App that wasn't.
How's that for starters.
Wake up and smell it.
Ancient Citizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,711
I'm an early riser Leonard, and much prefer tea, ta.Top or near the top of the death leagues.
Mass testing stopped on March 12.
The App that wasn't.
How's that for starters.
Wake up and smell it.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
An attack on the left is countered with an attack on the right and vica versa......
What politicians need to wake up to and those amongst us very heavily into our politics, party memberships and campaigning etc is the vast majority of the electorate couldn't give a fuck about left or right. They hold many different opinions that go between the left and right and are not stuck in some political mindset that means they just have to vote a certain way all of the time.
Most of us have a foot either side of the line.
What politicians need to wake up to and those amongst us very heavily into our politics, party memberships and campaigning etc is the vast majority of the electorate couldn't give a fuck about left or right. They hold many different opinions that go between the left and right and are not stuck in some political mindset that means they just have to vote a certain way all of the time.
Most of us have a foot either side of the line.
Ancient Citizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,711
Still up on her twitter
At the time in feb quite a few told her it was ill advised.
The reasoning why it isn't considered the same as others who have been sanctioned for praising kniwn historical antisemites was never given.
Some may say it is irrelevant, but in my opinion in such a sensitive time it is just as bad.
Anyway Arthur low and Love are on glasto on bbc 4 so if you reply I appologies as probably won't answer till morning ;-)
Ah, the Lady Astor, not an admirer of Churchill.
''Winston, if you were my husband I'd poison your coffee''
''Nancy, if you were my wife I'd drink it.''
lust overlord
Well-Known Member
An attack on the left is countered with an attack on the right and vica versa......
What politicians need to wake up to and those amongst us very heavily into our politics, party memberships and campaigning etc is the vast majority of the electorate couldn't give a fuck about left or right. They hold many different opinions that go between the left and right and are not stuck in some political mindset that means they just have to vote a certain way all of the time.
Most of us have a foot either side of the line.
Pretty much this.
People, in the main,aren't willing to make all the necessary sacrifices to make a better society.
So we compromise.
And moan like fuck at all the stuff we don't like.
Which there seems more of for me now.
;)