Keir Starmer

Churchlawtonblue said:
Rascal, genuine question do you think being a socialist can also be seen as being a bit non aspirational by some voters?
Click to expand...
It is portrayed as being non aspirational.

That is a challenge that has to be faced. There is so much myth that surrounds Socialism it is hard to break through those myths. It goes back to the cold war and stuff like Labour MPs being spies for the Soviet Union etc.

We have a nation that has been bombarded with neo-liberalism for 40 years, that is the kid on the block and people have bought into its narrative. They ignore its destructive tendencies because the destructive tendencies are ignored and the problems it has caused are deflected on to others. Alexi Sayle nailed it when he said the notion of the banking crash was because of their being too many libraries in Wolverhampton.

There is also this narrative about Socialism being about identity politics, which is utter nonsense, but just listening to LBC this morning and callers are saying it is a problem. Socialism doesn't care about identity, it cares about class. In that sense Socialism is aspirational for the Working Class, which is why the Capitalist class work so hard to discredit Socialism.
 
Rascal said:
Labour piled up votes where they weren't needed and lost votes where they were needed. Pro-EU Metropolitan areas voted Labour, but the red wall didn't.

Whether Brexit is a disaster or not is not the point Vic, Labour on the whole was on the wrong side of the debate when it should have been on the leave side. You simply cannot be left wing and pro EU as the EU is a capitalist construct. Labour became associated with the metropolitan liberal elite and lost the working class vote. We could debate it all over again, but it does not alter the fact that the country voted for Brexit and Labour were on the wrong side of history and now the people who voted for Brexit are stuck with a Government that will rule not in their interest but in the interest of capital because Labour were not brave enough to take the pro-Leave position and then govern in the interests of the people, not capital.
Click to expand...
Are you saying most Labour voters were thick for voting Remain? Even Corbyn was 70% Remain
 
Last edited:
tony coleman said:
I'm no expert when it comes to politics. I'm always of the opinion that all politicians are just a bunch of self serving luvvies. But when it came to labour this year it was a case of if I didn't take the knee I was a racist. They jumped on the woke nonsense band wagon and the cancel culture shit.
Click to expand...
I do not think politician's are self serving, i do genuinely believe the vast majority enter politics because they truly believe they can make a difference, the expenses scandal though was the start of the lack of trust in MPs and deservedly so.

What is never said, is why they got expenses. That is never ever reported.

I have never taken a knee, i understand why people would want to do it, i have no problem with it and as a lifelong antiracist i want to see racism eradicated from society. I do not think people who do not take a knee are racist, because i would be calling myself a racist.

What is this woke band wagon and cancel culture nonsense?. It is the RW media finding a way to discredit Socialism, even though Socialism has nothing to do with cancel culture or woke nonsense, it is metro liberal idealism. I am not a metro liberal, i am a working class Socialist.

Labour is too liberal, it needs to go back to its Socialist roots, the problem is when it did that Corbyn was attacked constantly for everything from the IRA, antisemitism, having an allotment, having a beard, you name it. Because the Capitalist class were scared to death of him.
 
BBC: Let's talk about how Labour can improve from their disastrous showing in the Hartlepool by election. Were joined in the studio by two commentators from right wing publications to tell us how great the Tories are. Before we start the debate I will quote a tweet from a hard left member of the Labour party demanding Starmer fucks off.
 
Gray said:
Correct and that is why Cameron thought we would all vote to remain in the EU. He was sat in the middle of London where billions of pounds have been spent on improvements whilst the rest of us were deriving no perceivable benefits at all of being in the EU. Time will tell if we were right to leave but so far so good, especially where Covid vaccinations are concerned.
Click to expand...
Good grief. They interviewed someone voting Leave in Merthyr Tydfil, stood in front of the EU-funded new leisure centre. Of course there were perceivable benefits, the EU funds went mostly to deprived regions.
 
inbetween said:
The problem Labour and Labour supporters have is they are living only in the present and are missing what has happened over the last 10 years on some huge questions concerning the EU and immigration. The usual mantra of shooting people down for having these concerns as racists or xenophobes is not working.

As you've said, saying it baffles you about someone putting an X in the Tory box misses the point that you likely didn't support Brexit and so don't care about it, but a massive number do and Labour did not and still do not have their backs. Why would the people of Hartlepool vote for the Tories considering they never have before? They haven't become stupid overnight, what they do have is a frustration with Labour because it doesn't speak for them.

The Tories are not a far-right party or even a centre-right party, they are a populist party. Brexit has been the biggest populist question for a century and Labour have been on the wrong side of the electorate on it for over a decade. It says it all that in 2019 the Tories didn't even really need a manifesto to win.

2015 - Miliband opposed a referendum, Cameron gave people one - Tory majority
2017 - May said deal, Corbyn said deal - hung parliament
2019 - Boris said no deal, Corbyn said deal closer to the EU or another referendum - Tory majority

I don't think that any of this is a rejection of Corbyn or the Corbyn hangover with Starmer as so many claim. It is however a rejection of the current radical 'woke', pro-immigration and pro-Europe elements within Labour that are pulling the strings on policy and in campaigning. They shouldn't be looking at why people rejected stalwarts like John Mcdonnell (who accepted the referendum) but rather why they rejected someone like Emily Thornberry (who didn't).
Click to expand...
That is a brilliant post
 
Rascal said:
I do not think politician's are self serving, i do genuinely believe the vast majority enter politics because they truly believe they can make a difference, the expenses scandal though was the start of the lack of trust in MPs and deservedly so.

What is never said, is why they got expenses. That is never ever reported.

I have never taken a knee, i understand why people would want to do it, i have no problem with it and as a lifelong antiracist i want to see racism eradicated from society. I do not think people who do not take a knee are racist, because i would be calling myself a racist.

What is this woke band wagon and cancel culture nonsense?. It is the RW media finding a way to discredit Socialism, even though Socialism has nothing to do with cancel culture or woke nonsense, it is metro liberal idealism. I am not a metro liberal, i am a working class Socialist.

Labour is too liberal, it needs to go back to its Socialist roots, the problem is when it did that Corbyn was attacked constantly for everything from the IRA, antisemitism, having an allotment, having a beard, you name it. Because the Capitalist class were scared to death of him.
Click to expand...
I think many of Corbyns ideas just went too far, too many free hand outs, voters wwre concerned where the money was going to come from. Which is a bit ironic considering what the current government has had to spend.
 
Rascal said:
Labour is not a hard left party. You bought the narrative it was.

The establishment want a nice safe Labour party that is centrist in outlook so it does not threaten the owners of capital.
Click to expand...
I actually said;
Labour will never win as a hard left party and the members won’t let them get back to the middle

No narrative mate
I didn’t say they are hard left, I said they will never win as a hard left
 
Peter Mandelson, an unsavoury type but used to being on the winning side, for a time anyway, has just made a comment about Labour's performance in the the last 11 General Elections...

Lost, lost, lost, lost, Blair, Blair, Blair, Lost, lost, lost, lost.

This should tell people something, but unfortunately for them, it won't.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Peter Mandelson, an unsavoury type but used to being on the winning side, for a time anyway, has just made a comment about Labour's performance in the the last 11 General Elections...

Lost, lost, lost, lost, Blair, Blair, Blair, Lost, lost, lost, lost.

This should tell people something, but unfortunately for them, it won't.
Click to expand...
Even a leave voting thicko can work it out!
Wonder why the left are struggling so much
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Peter Mandelson, an unsavoury type but used to being on the winning side, for a time anyway, has just made a comment about Labour's performance in the the last 11 General Elections...

Lost, lost, lost, lost, Blair, Blair, Blair, Lost, lost, lost, lost.

This should tell people something, but unfortunately for them, it won't.
Click to expand...
Just watched that utter **** on the Tory Broadcasting Corporation. He blamed Corbyn for Sir Starmer of the Establishment, who is a Tory mole. England is indeed lost. The early results show this. If you cannot destroy the Tories after all that is happened these last two years, they never will. I knew it would happen. The media have convinced so many to vote against their own interests and here we are. Fucked. With every election it becomes clearer Scotland needs to go it alone. Whether we do remains to be seen, but if we don't, we are absolutely fucked, putting up with cunts we hate running this shit show forever. Greater Manchester and London rejecting the Tories, the rest, fucking wankers.
 
Last edited:
So Labour is too left to be middle, or not socialist enough to get the working class to vote for them. I see the problem.

It's certainly hard to see how people who didn't think Labour was socialist enough would vote Tory.
 
Magicpole said:
Just watched that utter **** on the Tory Broadcasting Corporation. He blamed Corbyn for Sir Starmer of the Establishment, being a Tory mole. England is indeed lost. The early results show this. If you cannot destroy the Tories after all that is happened these last two years, they never will. I knew it would happen. The media have convinced so many to vote against their own interests and here we are. Fucked. With every election it becomes clearer we need to go it alone. Whether we do remains to be seen, but if we don't, we are absolutely fucked, putting up with cunts we hate running this shit show forever. Greater Manchester and London rejecting the Tories, the rest, fucking wankers.
Click to expand...
For new readers, "we" means Scotland?
 
meltonblue said:
Yes, national regulators have always been able to approve use of a vaccine in a pandemic, that’s why we were able still to sign off the Pfizer one in December.
Click to expand...
We were busy making independent trade deals in December, and the 12 months prior to it, no EU member can do this, the reason being we were not members of the EU. In June 2020 all members joined a scheme giving the EU
central responsibility. Which EU members, other than those who have gone rogue recently because of Von De Leyens cock ups, ordered their own vaccines?
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Peter Mandelson, an unsavoury type but used to being on the winning side, for a time anyway, has just made a comment about Labour's performance in the the last 11 General Elections...

Lost, lost, lost, lost, Blair, Blair, Blair, Lost, lost, lost, lost.

This should tell people something, but unfortunately for them, it won't.
Click to expand...
He also said what he got on the doorsteps of Hartlepool was that the previously 53% Labour voting public were looking at the lack of funding to the area and noticing that in other areas with Tory mayors and MPs the money was being released to them.

He didn’t blame people for voting how they did, but without calling it bribery, referred to it as pork belly politics. In other words Hartlepool constituents know that the only way they’ll get anything from a Tory government is to have a Tory MP and mayor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top