Keir Starmer

It does matter though.

As it dictated how generation upon generation views what is considered extreme or not socially acceptable in terms of what a society should be.

That Johnson has been mentioned as left wing conservatism shows that, that the horrible actions of IDS towards the disabled during austerities height was considered by many a necessary action not a disgrace is because of this shift of said window.

Ideas like an NHS, social housing and wellfare system in todays positioning of the overton window would have them considered far left wing, it is only because we have them they are not even seen like that.

This is where the left get it spectacularly wrong you are making an assumption that because the Tories get in the majority believe in their policies. The majority didn’t even vote for them and a lot that did had to hold their noses whilst doing it.

People believe in helping the disabled, they believe in public services, the police, education, the welfare state etc ... the window hasn’t moved greatly those to the left of the Tories are the majority. The left just need to get their shit together. The country would not vote for Corbyn Labour because of him and his manifesto. It isn’t an acceptance of IDS or many other Tory policies it’s a judgement on the Labour Party. I honestly don’t know anyone who likes the Tories or doesn’t want socialist policies.
 
This is where the left get it spectacularly wrong you are making an assumption that because the Tories get in the majority believe in their policies. The majority didn’t even vote for them and a lot that did had to hold their noses whilst doing it.

People believe in helping the disabled, they believe in public services, the police, education, the welfare state etc ... the window hasn’t moved greatly those to the left of the Tories are the majority. The left just need to get their shit together. The country would not vote for Corbyn Labour because of him and his manifesto. It isn’t an acceptance of IDS or many other Tory policies it’s a judgement on the Labour Party. I honestly don’t know anyone who likes the Tories or doesn’t want socialist policies.


I am not making an assumption I an saying why the overton window does matter.

And it is a sad reflection of our democracy if policy and what a party stands for is second in your reason.

Cobyn I said shoulda been fucked off as a vote loser, and many labours policies actually got positive reports, it was the explanation of how they would be able to implement them and pay for them that put people off as unworkable.

But my point still stands what was considered 30-40 years ago as centre to soft left political thinking would now be considered far left and portrayed that way to the masses. And the same such things was austerity would be considered a sensible necessity not an right wing ideology.
 
He’s wrong.

The public will be paying the furlough scheme off for years to come, sitting on furlough doesn’t get the economy moving again and it means less jobs to come back to.
Depends how they do it.
Our debt will be about half that at the end of WW2 in GDP terms.
If we invest another 10% of GDP in infrastructure and the economy then we'll be fine.
My only worry is it gets pissed against the wall in social engineering.
 
That's the problem with conspiracy theories. They have a potential grain of truth to them. This one started as a far-right conspiracy theory in the 1970's actually, proving that, when it comes to hating Jews, there's really little difference between the far-right and far-left. You're just as bad as each other.

Fortunately, knowing you, I genuinely believe you aren't antisemitic. But this episode and Corbyn's tenure as leader just goes to prove how easy it is to convince people that Jews are their enemy. There are people on BLM protests, who I believe genuinely want an end to discrimination against people of colour, yet who happily believe Israel - and by extension Jews - are the root of all the evil in the world. You even get people like Jackie Walker claiming Jews were behind the slave trade.

You know I am not anti semitic, I don't believe jews to be the enemy, I am not nor ever have been racist towards anybody, but I do honestly believe that there is a conflation between being AS and legitimate criticism of Israel. I would not be criticising the jewish people, I would be criticising the policies of the state/Leadership of the state, just as I would I would not be anti American because I was critical of the policies of Trump, or Anti British because I am critical of the policies Johnson nor Anti Thai because I was critical of Thaksin. A nation beyond reproach is in my opinion a dangerous thing. This may be a simplification of the point, but If I saw you in Summerbees (difficult I know because you are a midget) and I called you a ****, I wouldn't be calling you a **** because you are jewish, I would be calling you a **** because I call everyone a **** and then we would have a beer and a chat.

I do understand conspiracy theories, I know about the Protocols of the Elders of Sion and Cultural Marxism, and yes I know they can be dangerous if allowed to spread unchallenged and it is right and proper that they are challenged and made to look the dangerous stupidity they are, but and this is where I think the problem lies, any criticism can be dismissed as a conspiracy theory even if it has merit. That closes down debate, I would rather things be out in the open so we can diffentiate between what are conspiracy theories and what is legitimate criticism.

I don't have the knowledge of somebody like Skashion to debate with you over Israel/Palestine, I simply don't, its not something I have a particular interest or focus on, but I am aware others do, as has been said here that the left appear obsessed with Palestine, I am not because I don't know enough and if I don't know enough I cant form an opinion but I am open to people's opinions on the situation.

What has not helped in this matter at all from a Labour point of view is the donors to Starmer's campaign were not disclosed until after the election and that has left him open to accusations of currying favours for cash and that RLB had to go because of these links, whilst Reeves who has a history of posting stuff in favour of anti semite Nancy Astor is not censored. It makes it look like Starmer is ridding the party of the left, because certain sections of the left are pro-Palestine.

There does need to be education though about where the boundary lies between AS and legitimate criticism in my opinion. Because if am honest I haven't got much of a clue where that boundary lies and convention that Labour didn't approve says legitmate criticism is not AS, so I don't know.
 
I am not making an assumption I an saying why the overton window does matter.

And it is a sad reflection of our democracy if policy and what a party stands for is second in your reason.

Cobyn I said shoulda been fucked off as a vote loser, and many labours policies actually got positive reports, it was the explanation of how they would be able to implement them and pay for them that put people off as unworkable.

But my point still stands what was considered 30-40 years ago as centre to soft left political thinking would now be considered far left and portrayed that way to the masses. And the same such things was austerity would be considered a sensible necessity not an right wing ideology.

The Corbyn paragraph is literally what I said, I would like to hear what these centric policies of 30 to 40 years ago are now classed as far left. Until labour realise that just because someone thinks their policies are la la land doesn’t mean they are full on capitalist cult nutters. Any numpty can come up with let’s make everything better. The hard part is convincing people you can do it. labour keep failing miserably if you wish to delude yourself that is because the country has gone to the right that’s your business. But if you are right then the left are truly fucked.
 
Peake, and her ilk, should stick to the pretend industry that employs them.


Very good point, there was, then the 'Working Class,' when Tradesmen nowadays can
pull in a grand a week, that descriptive is now redundant. Plus Atlee,
even then, was a one hit wonder.


The most vocal are almost always employed in the public sector, own property,
live in leafy areas, and are never affected by the problems their views produce,
when implemented


The Labour voters of the past, that returned majorities, were mostly Royalists,
supported the armed forces, and respected the police. Speak to the recent red
wall turncoats and you find the same qualities, this Labour still
hasn't realised that.

Wow. Such self-hatred.
 

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