Keir Starmer

[Churchlawtonblue]

Problem is a lot of the left think of Blair as a tory.
Funny really when they bang on about the working class voting against their own interests when they as a party continue to make themselves unelectable.
Labour are their own worst enemy, all the conservatives have to do is be not quite as bad as labour

The country needs a strong oposition. and we havent had one for a long time.

 

[BlueHammer85]

The msm did a complete hatchet job on him, no surprise as he was a danger to them and their interests if he got elected. They feared and hated him as much as their so called sports journalists do us, with the same slanted reporting

yep. Which proves the whole Labour need a propar socialist with personality etc to win is a load of crap. They had that in Corbyn and he was totally unelectable

 

[paulchapo]

yep. Which proves the whole Labour need a propar socialist with personality etc to win is a load of crap. They had that in Corbyn and he was totally unelectable

Blair did it but I think his politics were more along the Tory line than socialist. He knew he had to also appeal to Tory voters to get elected, or middle England or whatever they call it

It is quite depressing if you are working class, particularly in a minimum wage/zero hour life. There is literally no hope whoever is elected which is why the vast majority don't bother voting. Coming out of this pandemic, if we ever do, is probably going to make the vast majority of people's lives even worse.

 

[paulchapo]

Problem is a lot of the left think of Blair as a tory.
Funny really when they bang on about the working class voting against their own interests when they as a party continue to make themselves unelectable.
Labour are their own worst enemy, all the conservatives have to do is be not quite as bad as labour

At the moment it's easy peasy. They don't actually have to do anything. They are as good as saying to the electorate, "Look I know you're life is shit at the moment, but if you elect Labour it will be even more shit." The msm will of course push that narrative all the way. I remember the front page of the sun the eve of one election with a lightbulb with Neil Kinnocks head inside it and the headline, "Will the last person to leave Britain turn the light off." It worked

 

[WNRH]

How can people be so hot and bothered about others taking the knee as a show of support against racism. This winds more people up than all the stuff Tories do ?! The mind boggles.

The issue on taking the knee is no longer a show of support, it was the first time, maybe the second and third, but we are now entering or may have entered the 50th time of doing so.

It has now become something that people fear they cannot stop for the fear of any repercussions or for views such as yourself.

If as you said taking the knee is a “show of support” then it is no different to all footballers taking a hypothetical show of support in the form of a physical action such as sitting down for 10 seconds before kick off in support of a lack of suitable wheelchair access across the country.

No one would bat an eyelid if it had gone on as long as taking the knee and someone said so, but because it involves racism if you have that view you are made out to be something you are not.

This is why I believe that photo was a final nail in the coffin for Starmer and for Labour for what it represented as an action, not just because it was taking a knee.

The symbol of knee taking was due to the horrific death George Floyd suffered, an American citizen who was the latest in a long long line of victims of American police brutality against black people that is still prevalent in the US at the moment.

It was and still is a US issue. Yet they latched on to it for a photo op and in doing so implied that the same issues were prevalent here in Britain when they are not and that our police force were no better than the Americans.

It’s not all about just taking the knee, this is just one example of many I brought up of the left (which Labour represents) enforcing identities and campaigns on normal people.

You can’t keep telling people they are something they are not and expect the same people to vote for you to represent.

There is a time and place for activism but the left want you to make it a daily task as routine and important as eating your breakfast.

You would put a fiver in a shaking charity bucket once, you wouldn’t do it every day.

Labour needed a leader that represented normal people. Normal people deplore any form of -ism’s, they strive for equality in all areas, they help others in time of need, they care for the environment, they do their bit to make the world a better place with small actions every day whilst living their lives as freely and as enjoyable as they can.

The Labour Party no longer represents normal people.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Very highly principled of you.
Keith and Angela take the knee and you're finished with Labour but no mention of the dire state of the country after ten years of Tory rule.

And here's another example of a myopic interpretation of the UK, it's
now in a 'Dire state.' Labour have spent the last 16 years giving the impression
that the country is on its knees with the wicked Tories showing no interest in
the people, and handing all their money to their 'mates.'
They portray Britain as some Dickensian hellhole with millions in poverty.
Facts, statistics, welfare payment amounts, all available online, are dismissed and ignored. Workers look around and don't see this rampant poverty, they then look at the people propounding this view, and they see middle class, pampered bubble brats like Jones and Sarkar.
Unless the party ditches this mindset it's gone forever.

 

[WNRH]

Because it shows they are more arsed about something (btw completely wrong and appalling and glad the guy was found guilty) That happened in another country and showing their solidarity than actually listening to the people of this country about brexit and other things.
I don’t think any normal person believes black lives do not matter

I’m glad someone got the point I was trying to make.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

And here's another example of a myopic interpretation of the UK, it's
now in a 'Dire state.' Labour have spent the last 16 years giving the impression
that the country is on its knees with the wicked Tories showing no interest in
the people, and handing all their money to their 'mates.'
They portray Britain as some Dickensian hellhole with millions in poverty.
Facts, statistics, welfare payment amounts, all available online, are dismissed and ignored. Workers look around and don't see this rampant poverty, they then look at the people propounding this view, and they see middle class, pampered bubble brats like Jones and Sarkar.
Unless the party ditches this mindset it's gone forever.

There is a big element of truth in that, If things were so bad why dont people vote for Starmer and Labour. Clearly the majority dont think its that bad. Its also apparent to me that many who deride this country and the oportunities it still offers have clearly not travelled or experienced other countries that much. I have been to many countries in the world and yes i believe some are better but the majority are worse in some aspect or another. Why is it that refugees and economic migrants are prepared to cross the whole European continent and risk their lives crossing the channel to get to such a terrible country as the UK.

 

[BlueHammer85]

The issue on taking the knee is no longer a show of support, it was the first time, maybe the second and third, but we are now entering or may have entered the 50th time of doing so.

It has now become something that people fear they cannot stop for the fear of any repercussions or for views such as yourself.

If as you said taking the knee is a “show of support” then it is no different to all footballers taking a hypothetical show of support in the form of a physical action such as sitting down for 10 seconds before kick off in support of a lack of suitable wheelchair access across the country.

No one would bat an eyelid if it had gone on as long as taking the knee and someone said so, but because it involves racism if you have that view you are made out to be something you are not.

This is why I believe that photo was a final nail in the coffin for Starmer and for Labour for what it represented as an action, not just because it was taking a knee.

The symbol of knee taking was due to the horrific death George Floyd suffered, an American citizen who was the latest in a long long line of victims of American police brutality against black people that is still prevalent in the US at the moment.

It was and still is a US issue. Yet they latched on to it for a photo op and in doing so implied that the same issues were prevalent here in Britain when they are not and that our police force were no better than the Americans.

It’s not all about just taking the knee, this is just one example of many I brought up of the left (which Labour represents) enforcing identities and campaigns on normal people.

You can’t keep telling people they are something they are not and expect the same people to vote for you to represent.

There is a time and place for activism but the left want you to make it a daily task as routine and important as eating your breakfast.

You would put a fiver in a shaking charity bucket once, you wouldn’t do it every day.

Labour needed a leader that represented normal people. Normal people deplore any form of -ism’s, they strive for equality in all areas, they help others in time of need, they care for the environment, they do their bit to make the world a better place with small actions every day whilst living their lives as freely and as enjoyable as they can.

The Labour Party no longer represents normal people.

the kneel is not just a show of support against racism but all forms of discrimination- yes it is here because of Floyds murder and BLM but you are saying it’s not a problem over here, just America. That’s totally not true, racism exists - whether it’s blatant online racism against likes of Wright and Sterling or the undercurrent of racism which prevents black people getting the same opportunities as white people for certain job roles etc.

what people like you want is for everyone to just shut up about it and go away - so this is what the real fight is, fighting against this mentality.

we have come along way in combating racism and day by day it’s not being tolerated any longer.

the premier league is a global sport, televised all over the world - if they can play an important part in getting the message across then this is a huge step.

 

[WNRH]

the kneel is not just a show of support against racism but all forms of discrimination- yes it is here because of Floyds murder and BLM but you are saying it’s not a problem over here, just America. That’s totally not true, racism exists - whether it’s blatant online racism against likes of Wright and Sterling or the undercurrent of racism which prevents black people getting the same opportunities as white people for certain job roles etc.

what people like you want is for everyone to just shut up about it and go away - so this is what the real fight is, fighting against this mentality.

we have come along way in combating racism and day by day it’s not being tolerated any longer.

the premier league is a global sport, televised all over the world - if they can play an important part in getting the message across then this is a huge step.

So when does the show of support stop? When racism is eradicated? Are you that naive to believe that is a realistic end goal?

You are a perfect example of the people I mention in my post. Telling me I am something I am not.

You don’t know me yet you come out with “people like me” comments. Who are people like me? How do you know I just want it to go away.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

There is a big element of truth in that, If things were so bad why dont people vote for Starmer and Labour. Clearly the majority dont think its that bad. Its also apparent to me that many who deride this country and the oportunities it still offers have clearly not travelled or experienced other countries that much. I have been to many countries in the world and yes i believe some are better but the majority are worse in some aspect or another. Why is it that refugees and economic migrants are prepared to cross the whole European continent and risk their lives crossing the channel to get to such a terrible country as the UK.

You won't get answers to this, because instead of understanding the people,
Labour have opted to preach to the people. When this gets shunned, they don't learn, they double down. Starmer, along with all the other failures, is
one of these people, after referendums, elections, and more elections, this bloke thought it wise to put up a candidate in Hartlepool who's main focus is
rejoining the EU. At first glance, most folk would think that an act of rank stupidity, just jaw dropping lunacy, nobody who hasn't been in a coma for 5 years would support such idiocy, would they?
But Starmer isn't an idiot, just another who can't see the wood for the trees, with an imbued sense of superiority that blinds him to the common man's actual lives.
And so they stagger on.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

That’s irrelevant too, the point is it was always a choice. The framing of it by Johnson is that brexit enabled us to do what we did. It didn’t, we could have done it anyway.

As I said before, all 27 signed up to the EU scheme, how many ignored it and went alone? Why do you think Von de Leyen has received pelters from EU members? If everyone can do as they pleased the EU countries would not be miles behind this one, why did the EU raid Astra Zeneca?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

PR in multi seated constituencies would return a much more electorate representative government. Probably a lot of coalitions for a while.
You’re stuck with what you’re getting at the moment as long as you have FPTP.

That suits the Tories.

It also suits the population, who don't want PR.
It's telling that Labour, who previously were as against PR as most others, are
now getting interested in it.
All a bit sad really.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

So, immediately after taking full and personal responsibility Starmer is wheeling out the New Labour faithful like Mandelson to explain that this is all Corbyns fault. It's as laughable as watching 80's and 90's tory governments blame the 70's Labour one for their shortcomings.
2017 GE under Corbyn (not yet outed as a Czech spy and reincarnation of Marx/Hitler) with 'soft' Brexit support Labour got 52% of the vote.
2019 GE still Corbyn (now Chech spy, marxist anti-Semite and Hamas/IRA stooge) proposing Mandelsons 'peoples vote' or Starmers 'get a new deal and campaign against it / ourselves policy' Labour got 37% of the vote.
2021 (albeit just local byelections / mayoral rather than GE) Labour under Starmer loses more ground (circa 10 pts). This against the backdrop of a party and pm that are mired in failure, corruption, and sleaze

Starmer wants us to believe this is because of covid and the shadow of corbyn, and expects the nation to buy into his vision of 'change' without even being prepared to tell us what it is. He's spent 2 years trying to shame boris over pathetic stuff like the wallpaper in his flat, while backing him on the gaffs that have killed peoples grannies in their thousands.

It's a bit tin-foil hat to suggest Starmer is an 'establishment' / tory plant, but if he were he could hardly have played his hand more effectively. On the other hand you have the hard left of Labour trying to convince us that the nation is voting tory because Labour isn't left enough? I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't Starmer.

 

[mat]

So, immediately after taking full and personal responsibility Starmer is wheeling out the New Labour faithful like Mandelson to explain that this is all Corbyns fault. It's as laughable as watching 80's and 90's tory governments blame the 70's Labour one for their shortcomings.
2017 GE under Corbyn (not yet outed as a Czech spy and reincarnation of Marx/Hitler) with 'soft' Brexit support Labour got 52% of the vote.
2019 GE still Corbyn (now Chech spy, marxist anti-Semite and Hamas/IRA stooge) proposing Mandelsons 'peoples vote' or Starmers 'get a new deal and campaign against it / ourselves policy' Labour got 37% of the vote.
2021 (albeit just local byelections / mayoral rather than GE) Labour under Starmer loses more ground (circa 10 pts). This against the backdrop of a party and pm that are mired in failure, corruption, and sleaze

Starmer wants us to believe this is because of covid and the shadow of corbyn, and expects the nation to buy into his vision of 'change' without even being prepared to tell us what it is. He's spent 2 years trying to shame boris over pathetic stuff like the wallpaper in his flat, while backing him on the gaffs that have killed peoples grannies in their thousands.

It's a bit tin-foil hat to suggest Starmer is an 'establishment' / tory plant, but if he were he could hardly have played his hand more effectively. On the other hand you have the hard left of Labour trying to convince us that the nation is voting tory because Labour isn't left enough? I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't Starmer.

I was agreeing with Clive Lewis on BBC earlier.

"There's no such thing as centre ground. Labour need policies to create one."

 

[Len Rum]

Firstly I was never with Labour.

Secondly this is a thread about Keir Starmer who is the leader of the Labour Party.

If I wanted to comment on how the Conservative party were doing I would pop along over to their thread and be highly principled there.

Fair enough mate.
Looking forward to your post on the Conservative party thread explaining what the moment of truth was that made you fall out of love with the Tories.

 

[jimharri]

I feel for Starmer. He comes across as a decent man, but he has inherited a mess of a party after Corbyn's spell in charge. The Conservatives are deeply unpopular, with a figurehead that comes across as a bumbling idiot. And yet, the public don't seem to be able to trust Labour enough to vote against them. That Hartlepool by election result was an absolute disaster for Labour. A seat that was rock solid red for nigh on fifty years, in what would be seen in an area of the country that would be viewed as a stronghold for Labour. And yet the tories strolled over the finishing line. Hard to see Labour being in a serious position to challenge for government in the next 5-10 years.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So, immediately after taking full and personal responsibility Starmer is wheeling out the New Labour faithful like Mandelson to explain that this is all Corbyns fault. It's as laughable as watching 80's and 90's tory governments blame the 70's Labour one for their shortcomings.
2017 GE under Corbyn (not yet outed as a Czech spy and reincarnation of Marx/Hitler) with 'soft' Brexit support Labour got 52% of the vote.
2019 GE still Corbyn (now Chech spy, marxist anti-Semite and Hamas/IRA stooge) proposing Mandelsons 'peoples vote' or Starmers 'get a new deal and campaign against it / ourselves policy' Labour got 37% of the vote.
2021 (albeit just local byelections / mayoral rather than GE) Labour under Starmer loses more ground (circa 10 pts). This against the backdrop of a party and pm that are mired in failure, corruption, and sleaze

Starmer wants us to believe this is because of covid and the shadow of corbyn, and expects the nation to buy into his vision of 'change' without even being prepared to tell us what it is. He's spent 2 years trying to shame boris over pathetic stuff like the wallpaper in his flat, while backing him on the gaffs that have killed peoples grannies in their thousands.

It's a bit tin-foil hat to suggest Starmer is an 'establishment' / tory plant, but if he were he could hardly have played his hand more effectively. On the other hand you have the hard left of Labour trying to convince us that the nation is voting tory because Labour isn't left enough? I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't Starmer.

I said this when he was elected. The Labour leader needs to be someone who is more connected to the Labour vote in the north. Someone with carisma, someone who clearly backs this country and its people to the hilt and someone people can identify with. Not a pasty faced wishy washy London politician like Starmer. Imo it wouldnt take many of those qualities to topple Boris as he isnt a good PM when it comes to handling a crisis, hes a fair weather PM.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So when does the show of support stop? When racism is eradicated? Are you that naive to believe that is a realistic end goal?

You are a perfect example of the people I mention in my post. Telling me I am something I am not.

You don’t know me yet you come out with “people like me” comments. Who are people like me? How do you know I just want it to go away.

I apologise for saying ‘people like you’.

For now, we’re at a good point in really ramming home the message and educating people about racism - it’s positive we are having this convo and so many others.
watch Wrights interview with Shearer , it’s really powerful to understand how racism exists and the abuse black people still get.
It’s not something we should just sweep under the carpet simply because ‘racism will always exist’
In the 70’s you would have had people saying ‘oh it’s just the odd monkey chant and banana’ it’s always gonna exist- that’s been rooted out the stands by tackling racism - now we in a position to root it out of social media and workplaces and take stronger action. I’m sure it will calm down eventually and yes racism will exist - but if steps have been taken in the last few months by making those racists get tougher sentences, if workplaces look at ways to be more inclusive etc then even that’s been worth it.

 

[WNRH]

Fair enough mate.
Looking forward to your post on the Conservative party thread explaining what the moment of truth was that made you fall out of love with the Tories.

Why would I do that? I was never in love with the Tories nor have any interest in discussing them. They clearly are doing well so they it doesn’t need any input from myself.