Keir Starmer

[blueinsa]

Labour lost badly because of BREXIT, it failed to support it, when it should have done and that left the working class at odds with the party. It made Labour look the party of the liberal metro elite and the red wall fucked them off as a result.

Bingo! This man gets it.

I will however have to agree with @Ancient Citizen in so much the pat on the head approach of left wing labour telling us all how badly we have it and that the country has never been shitter just doesn't reflect the lives of the vast majority Russ I'm afraid and that is also a message that gets boring fast and very quickly ignored.

Even more so when its some metropolitan elite momentum/#FBPE on £100k a year in their £400k flat on the banks of the Thames!

 

[Rascal]

Bingo! This man gets it.

I will however have to agree with @Ancient Citizen in so much the pat on the head approach of left wing labour telling us all how badly we have it and that the country has never been shitter just doesn't reflect the lives of the vast majority Russ I'm afraid and that is also a message that gets boring fast and very quickly ignored.

Even more so when its some metropolitan elite momentum/#FBPE on £100k a year in their £400k flat on the banks of the Thames!

The message wasn't life is shit, it was life could be better and it could. Nobody ever gets elected by saying life is shit.

There is a common term now used in nudge theory called Boosterism, Johnson uses it a lot, its the projection of confidence in something he isn't confident in. Labour could have learned from that and employed Boosterism but I believe its shallow and would rather be told how it is rather than how its perceived to be.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

So the manifesto wasn't hard left, it was a throw away remark you read in the Daily Express.

Labour lost badly because of BREXIT, it failed to support it, when it should have done and that left the working class at odds with the party. It made Labour look the party of the liberal metro elite and the red wall fucked them off as a result.

Britain has got huge problems with poverty, parts of Manchester are amongst the poorest areas in Europe, we have more foodbanks than Mcdonalds, the austerity years were cruel on those with least, the minimum wage is a joke, the NHS is crumbling and lacks funding, the schools are a disgrace, UK students pay some of the highest fees in the world, we have massive problems with homelessness, their is a crisis in mental health services, zero hour jobs are a piss take, the manufacturing industry has been destroyed, the Banks have took the piss, the roads are full of potholes, the railways are third world, town centres are dying, yes some are doing well and good luck to them but many are not and those who are not doing well are doing even worse under this miserable fucking excuse for a Govt, but the very tradesman who are doing well complained about immigrants taking their jobs so who are they doing well?

Politics in this country is always about class, everything that is done is about class, Blair claimed we are all middle class now, the fucking clown pandering to the Thatcherite myth of a meritocracy, a meritocracy that does not exist because Capitalism does not allow for a meritocracy so the Capitalists use their influence to paint anything that threatens their hegemony as hard left because they hate parting with their money, they are only patriotic towards their bank balance and yachts in the Cayman Islands not to the country or its millions of hard working decent folk struggling to get by from day to day with no savings and relying on foodbanks to feed their kids.

And what we have now is a Labour party in thrall to the capitalists because they have backed Starmer and he is no threat to their hegemony because he needs their money to become PM.

I'm afraid the type of country you describe is not this one, and the people
you're convinced are doing very badly just voted for the Conservatives. Labour tried
the 'Huge poverty' tack and it didn't work, because, in the main, it isn't there, the working
class are no longer the thousands of proles grafting in mega factories, and the kind of
politics you want is now just a past memory, that won't be enacted.
I know you're a communist mate, you've admitted it many times, and fair enough,
to each their own, but you must realise that that philosophy was badly flawed at the time,
it resulted in untold misery, and will never, ever work.

 

[Ban-jani]

Labour lost because of a) Brexit b) Corbyn as a candidate and c) their open alliance with identity politics.

The working class aren’t opposed to some left leaning policies and don’t mind nationalisation of industry, if it can be shown to work but they are patriotic and they can’t stand wokeism.

I think Starmer will get this, he’s too clever not to.

 

[Rascal]

I'm afraid the type of country you describe is not this one, and the people
you're convinced are doing very badly just voted for the Conservatives. Labour tried
the 'Huge poverty' tack and it didn't work, because, in the main, it isn't there, the working
class are no longer the thousands of proles grafting in mega factories, and the kind of
politics you want is now just a past memory, that won't be enacted.
I know you're a communist mate, you've admitted it many times, and fair enough,
to each their own, but you must realise that that philosophy was badly flawed at the time,
it resulted in untold misery, and will never, ever work.

Are you comical Ali?

Everything I stated exists, you simply cannot deny that millions rely on foodbanks, are on zero hours contracts, the schools are crumbling, the NHS is underfunded and their is a mental health crisis etc etc. You must drive down roads full of potholes and if you ever try to use the train you must know its a bag shit. Can you tell me where I am wrong? Because I don't see this utopia you live in and I live in a decent area.

https://www.poverty.ac.uk/report-poverty-england/poverty-manchester-–-people-face-‘hunger-and-fear’

Read the above, thats Manchester at the moment.

Labour lost because it didnt support brexit, most of the red wall supported brexit, so voted for a party that promised to deliver it. Even the Tories acknowledge that votes were lent to them so brexit could be enacted. The real failure was Labour pandering to London and ignoring its traditional voters.

As for Starmer he has no answer's but Blairite contuism. He has no vision for radical change and if he had the vision he would back brexit rather than let the Tories own it. Rightly or wrongly the old labour supporters of the red wall see brexit as an opportunity to escape poverty, a renewal in the Britain they once knew.

We can argue all day long about it but imho austerity paved the way for brexit, the govt. managed to deflect blame for austerity onto the EU and it was an opportunity for them to enable brexit. As Alexei Sayle put it so succinctly the notion that too many libraries in Wolverhampton caused a worldwide Banking crisis is utter nonsense, but people see their libraries being shut, their services cut, their care cut and the blame was appropriated towards the EU and immigration through clever media manipulation and overt propoganda. I have long argued that the true patriotic party in the UK was the Labour party as it represented the patriotic working class and because of that it should have sold brexit as an opportunity to organise the economy along Socialist lines, but Starmer and the Labour PLPs insistence on being pro-EU not only betrayed Socialism it managed to lose the patriotic working class vote to the Tories. The Tories only show patriotism towards money and capitalism, that is the altar they worship at, but they were clever enough to know that Brexit would give them an opportunity to turn England Blue and enable an even more severe form of neo=liberalist economics. The swing to the right of politics in this country shows they were correct in their analysis and one of the reasons Corbyn was so demonised was because he was the antithesis of where the Tories hope to take us. Corbyn can be criticised for many things but at least he tried to pull politics back leftwards where as Starmer is quite comfortable on Tory lite/Blairite/centrist ground.

We could well end up in this country with a two party system similar to the USA with a party of the right and a party of the further right, like the democrats and republicans because i envisage a new party of the left, because Labour under Starmer has left the left and become a centrist party. He may be a decent fella i dont know, to me he comes across as a man who has no conviction or leftist principles and he is a man quite happy to purge the left and pander to capitalism.

One of lifes big mysteries to me, is why the working class continually vote gainst their own interests.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Labour lost because of a) Brexit b) Corbyn as a candidate and c) their open alliance with identity politics.

The working class aren’t opposed to some left leaning policies and don’t mind nationalisation of industry, if it can be shown to work but they are patriotic and they can’t stand wokeism.

I think Starmer will get this, he’s too clever not to.

D) most people are doing alright and vote out their own pocket, so would rather stick with the Tory’s

 

[Len Rum]

Are you comical Ali?

Everything I stated exists, you simply cannot deny that millions rely on foodbanks, are on zero hours contracts, the schools are crumbling, the NHS is underfunded and their is a mental health crisis etc etc. You must drive down roads full of potholes and if you ever try to use the train you must know its a bag shit. Can you tell me where I am wrong? Because I don't see this utopia you live in and I live in a decent area.

https://www.poverty.ac.uk/report-poverty-england/poverty-manchester-–-people-face-‘hunger-and-fear’

Read the above, thats Manchester at the moment.

Labour lost because it didnt support brexit, most of the red wall supported brexit, so voted for a party that promised to deliver it. Even the Tories acknowledge that votes were lent to them so brexit could be enacted. The real failure was Labour pandering to London and ignoring its traditional voters.

As for Starmer he has no answer's but Blairite contuism. He has no vision for radical change and if he had the vision he would back brexit rather than let the Tories own it. Rightly or wrongly the old labour supporters of the red wall see brexit as an opportunity to escape poverty, a renewal in the Britain they once knew.

We can argue all day long about it but imho austerity paved the way for brexit, the govt. managed to deflect blame for austerity onto the EU and it was an opportunity for them to enable brexit. As Alexei Sayle put it so succinctly the notion that too many libraries in Wolverhampton caused a worldwide Banking crisis is utter nonsense, but people see their libraries being shut, their services cut, their care cut and the blame was appropriated towards the EU and immigration through clever media manipulation and overt propoganda. I have long argued that the true patriotic party in the UK was the Labour party as it represented the patriotic working class and because of that it should have sold brexit as an opportunity to organise the economy along Socialist lines, but Starmer and the Labour PLPs insistence on being pro-EU not only betrayed Socialism it managed to lose the patriotic working class vote to the Tories. The Tories only show patriotism towards money and capitalism, that is the altar they worship at, but they were clever enough to know that Brexit would give them an opportunity to turn England Blue and enable an even more severe form of neo=liberalist economics. The swing to the right of politics in this country shows they were correct in their analysis and one of the reasons Corbyn was so demonised was because he was the antithesis of where the Tories hope to take us. Corbyn can be criticised for many things but at least he tried to pull politics back leftwards where as Starmer is quite comfortable on Tory lite/Blairite/centrist ground.

We could well end up in this country with a two party system similar to the USA with a party of the right and a party of the further right, like the democrats and republicans because i envisage a new party of the left, because Labour under Starmer has left the left and become a centrist party. He may be a decent fella i dont know, to me he comes across as a man who has no conviction or leftist principles and he is a man quite happy to purge the left and pander to capitalism.

One of lifes big mysteries to me, is why the working class continually vote gainst their own interests.

Worth also mentioning that Labour lost Scotland and the Tories have the ref on their side ( the media).

 

[Len Rum]

Bingo! This man gets it.

I will however have to agree with @Ancient Citizen in so much the pat on the head approach of left wing labour telling us all how badly we have it and that the country has never been shitter just doesn't reflect the lives of the vast majority Russ I'm afraid and that is also a message that gets boring fast and very quickly ignored.

Even more so when its some metropolitan elite momentum/#FBPE on £100k a year in their £400k flat on the banks of the Thames!

See you've bought the mobs and the snobs with the hated liberal elite in the middle thing mate.
You're going to feel mighty let down when you find out the snobs don't give a sh1t and are only in it for themselves.
Levelling up.
Do me a favour.

 

[Vic]

Are you comical Ali?

Everything I stated exists, you simply cannot deny that millions rely on foodbanks, are on zero hours contracts, the schools are crumbling, the NHS is underfunded and their is a mental health crisis etc etc. You must drive down roads full of potholes and if you ever try to use the train you must know its a bag shit. Can you tell me where I am wrong? Because I don't see this utopia you live in and I live in a decent area.

https://www.poverty.ac.uk/report-poverty-england/poverty-manchester-–-people-face-‘hunger-and-fear’

Read the above, thats Manchester at the moment.

Labour lost because it didnt support brexit, most of the red wall supported brexit, so voted for a party that promised to deliver it. Even the Tories acknowledge that votes were lent to them so brexit could be enacted. The real failure was Labour pandering to London and ignoring its traditional voters.

As for Starmer he has no answer's but Blairite contuism. He has no vision for radical change and if he had the vision he would back brexit rather than let the Tories own it. Rightly or wrongly the old labour supporters of the red wall see brexit as an opportunity to escape poverty, a renewal in the Britain they once knew.

We can argue all day long about it but imho austerity paved the way for brexit, the govt. managed to deflect blame for austerity onto the EU and it was an opportunity for them to enable brexit. As Alexei Sayle put it so succinctly the notion that too many libraries in Wolverhampton caused a worldwide Banking crisis is utter nonsense, but people see their libraries being shut, their services cut, their care cut and the blame was appropriated towards the EU and immigration through clever media manipulation and overt propoganda. I have long argued that the true patriotic party in the UK was the Labour party as it represented the patriotic working class and because of that it should have sold brexit as an opportunity to organise the economy along Socialist lines, but Starmer and the Labour PLPs insistence on being pro-EU not only betrayed Socialism it managed to lose the patriotic working class vote to the Tories. The Tories only show patriotism towards money and capitalism, that is the altar they worship at, but they were clever enough to know that Brexit would give them an opportunity to turn England Blue and enable an even more severe form of neo=liberalist economics. The swing to the right of politics in this country shows they were correct in their analysis and one of the reasons Corbyn was so demonised was because he was the antithesis of where the Tories hope to take us. Corbyn can be criticised for many things but at least he tried to pull politics back leftwards where as Starmer is quite comfortable on Tory lite/Blairite/centrist ground.

We could well end up in this country with a two party system similar to the USA with a party of the right and a party of the further right, like the democrats and republicans because i envisage a new party of the left, because Labour under Starmer has left the left and become a centrist party. He may be a decent fella i dont know, to me he comes across as a man who has no conviction or leftist principles and he is a man quite happy to purge the left and pander to capitalism.

One of lifes big mysteries to me, is why the working class continually vote gainst their own interests.

I'll agree with lots of that about austerity but if you think "Labour lost because it didnt support brexit" and that Corbyn wasn't at least as big a factor, then you didn't do much campaigning for Labour.

 

[blueinsa]

See you've bought the mobs and the snobs with the hated liberal elite in the middle thing mate.
You're going to feel mighty let down when you find out the snobs don't give a sh1t and are only in it for themselves.
Levelling up.
Do me a favour.

Bought nothing Len.

Hilarious that all you dyed in the wool socialists put all your money and faith in the metropolitan elite though as you abandoned the working class with your brexit snobbery and name calling.

Even funnier will be watching you all trying to win them back anytime soon.

Not happening!