Keir Starmer

[Shaelumstash]

So Democratic Socialism is far left now?

I wish somebody on the left would form a new party that could act like UKIP did on the Tories and drag the Labour party back towards the left and away from the centrist nonsense that in reality is just more neo liberalism.

Labour tried going further to the left with Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn as leaders, and got rejected by the electorate each time.

I think Momentum did what you are suggesting, but from inside the Labour party. It succeeded in dragging the party left, but the electorate just didn't follow.

That's the point I was making earlier, irrespective of what you or I might want in an ideal world, the electorate in 2022 will only elect a centre-left Labour government, or a Tory PM.

 

[Rascal]

Labour tried going further to the left with Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn as leaders, and got rejected by the electorate each time.

I think Momentum did what you are suggesting, but from inside the Labour party. It succeeded in dragging the party left, but the electorate just didn't follow.

That's the point I was making earlier, irrespective of what you or I might want in an ideal world, the electorate in 2022 will only elect a centre-left Labour government, or a Tory PM.

Brown and Miliband were Social Democrats, Corbyn is a Democratic Socialist. That makes Corbyn centre left and the others on the right of the Labour party, the real left of the party is people like me who tend towards Communist ideology. The problem is the left has been so demonised in the media is that anyone who has the remotest left wing ideology is now classed as a Marxist. Mick Lynch has been accused of being a Marxist ffs. It is all about the eradication of Socialism because Socialism threatens those with the most.

Momentum even at its peak were only 1 in 10 of Labour party members, their influence is vastly inflated in much the same way the militant tendency in the 80s was vastly overstated.

The Labour party under Starmer is being dragged rightwards so that if the electorate want an alternative to the Tories, the alternative is not that damaging to the interests of capital. Starmers refusal to commit to Nationalisation is evidence of this.

This has been going on a long time, since the early 70s in this country when various think tanks were set up using shady money in order to destroy the post WW2 social consensus. Those think tanks flooded the media with anti left wing propaganda , which allowed for the rise of neo-liberalism and what we see now in the destruction of the social welfare state and NHS. The gains made in social cohesion after WW2 cost those with the most and they have fought back and looking at the current crop of Tories they would be quite happy with a return to serfdom.

In my opinion the only way we can fight back is not by imitating the nonsense of the RW but by opposing the RW, Starmer is after imitating them with a few bones for the working class, he does not want to challenge the hegemony of the neo-liberal order because he is comfortable with the neo liberal orthodoxy.

Starmer needs to get out there and say he will nationalise the public utilities and transport systems, he will fund the NHS properly, he will back the Unions,he will fund a proper welfare state and actually say he is sticking up for the working class and not the owners of capital who have taken the piss out of us for so long.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Brown and Miliband were Social Democrats, Corbyn is a Democratic Socialist. That makes Corbyn centre left and the others on the right of the Labour party, the real left of the party is people like me who tend towards Communist ideology. The problem is the left has been so demonised in the media is that anyone who has the remotest left wing ideology is now classed as a Marxist. Mick Lynch has been accused of being a Marxist ffs. It is all about the eradication of Socialism because Socialism threatens those with the most.

Momentum even at its peak were only 1 in 10 of Labour party members, their influence is vastly inflated in much the same way the militant tendency in the 80s was vastly overstated.

The Labour party under Starmer is being dragged rightwards so that if the electorate want an alternative to the Tories, the alternative is not that damaging to the interests of capital. Starmers refusal to commit to Nationalisation is evidence of this.

This has been going on a long time, since the early 70s in this country when various think tanks were set up using shady money in order to destroy the post WW2 social consensus. Those think tanks flooded the media with anti left wing propaganda , which allowed for the rise of neo-liberalism and what we see now in the destruction of the social welfare state and NHS. The gains made in social cohesion after WW2 cost those with the most and they have fought back and looking at the current crop of Tories they would be quite happy with a return to serfdom.

In my opinion the only way we can fight back is not by imitating the nonsense of the RW but by opposing the RW, Starmer is after imitating them with a few bones for the working class, he does not want to challenge the hegemony of the neo-liberal order because he is comfortable with the neo liberal orthodoxy.

Starmer needs to get out there and say he will nationalise the public utilities and transport systems, he will fund the NHS properly, he will back the Unions,he will fund a proper welfare state and actually say he is sticking up for the working class and not the owners of capital who have taken the piss out of us for so long.

You're getting into semantics about what's considered far left. If you class yourself as someone who tends towards Communist ideology, then it's pretty likely your definition of what you consider to be far left or centrist is very different from the electorate's definition.

I'm loosely using the definition of centre ground as based on the average view of the electorate. Based on election results of the last 30 years, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn were too far to the left for the electorate.

I appreciate they were not too far to the left for you, but perhaps the centre ground of the UK electorate is further to the right than you realised.

Blair won 3 elections, Starmer is 10 points ahead in the polls, Brown, Ed Milliband and Corbyn all got trounced in elections, that tells you all you need to know. It can't all be the Daily Mail's fault. They absolutely slaughtered Blair, but he still managed 3 healthy majorities.

I come back to my point, it's a binary choice at the next election - centre left Starmer or Liz fucking Truss.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

You're getting into semantics about what's considered far left. If you class yourself as someone who tends towards Communist ideology, then it's pretty likely your definition of what you consider to be far left or centrist is very different from the electorate's definition.

I'm loosely using the definition of centre ground as based on the average view of the electorate. Based on election results of the last 30 years, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn were too far to the left for the electorate.

I appreciate they were not too far to the left for you, but perhaps the centre ground of the UK electorate is further to the right than you realised.

Blair won 3 elections, Starmer is 10 points ahead in the polls, Brown, Ed Milliband and Corbyn all got trounced in elections, that tells you all you need to know. It can't all be the Daily Mail's fault. They absolutely slaughtered Blair, but he still managed 3 healthy majorities.

I come back to my point, it's a binary choice at the next election - centre left Starmer or Liz fucking Truss.

The problem with the premise of this post is that you assume people are giving their votes on the basis of left or right and policies.

On number of occasions when analysis has been carried out, what the analysis actually showed was people vote for narratives and how in touch their feel the parties are with them.

That’s a perception issue of course and the perception could be wrong, Boris Von Pfeffal is not more in touch with working class people than Jeremy Corbyn.

Also worth pointing out that ex Labour supporters voted for UKIP and the Brexit Party instead of the Tories. They would rather vote for the far far right than the far right version of the Conservative party.

Tories are very successful at setting the narrative and creating the environment where they are the natural winner. Austerity and bankrupt Britain or Brexit and take back control.

Unfortunately there are plenty of foolish gullible people who believe the lies.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Those who say Starmer says or does nothing he has at least put this out this morning - meanwhile Johnson is still our PM but would rather be on holiday or in another country getting his ego massaged and for the rest of his mob every news outlet reports the govt says "no Minister was available for comment" -

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Those who say Starmer says or does nothing he has at least put this out this morning - meanwhile Johnson is still our PM but would rather be on holiday or in another country getting his ego massaged and for the rest of his mob every news outlet reports the govt says "no Minister was available for comment" -

Fair enough - off the fence for once.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Those who say Starmer says or does nothing he has at least put this out this morning - meanwhile Johnson is still our PM but would rather be on holiday or in another country getting his ego massaged and for the rest of his mob every news outlet reports the govt says "no Minister was available for comment" -

Always good to see the opposition getting firm policies across and now people are starting to listen, rather than thinking it was always a Tory plan, maybe they‘ll actually take onboard what the Labour message is.

A party for the current day workforce.

 

[mat]

Always good to see the opposition getting firm policies across and now people are starting to listen, rather than thinking it was always a Tory plan, maybe they‘ll actually take onboard what the Labour message is.

A party for the current day workforce.

They've nicked a couple of his policies. Albeit watered down but sold as being the same.

 

[domalino]

Those who say Starmer says or does nothing he has at least put this out this morning - meanwhile Johnson is still our PM but would rather be on holiday or in another country getting his ego massaged and for the rest of his mob every news outlet reports the govt says "no Minister was available for comment" -

Anyone who pretends Starmer is a Tory in disguise is lying.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Anyone who pretends Starmer is a Tory in disguise is lying.

Starmer is calmly trying to appeal to a large demographic in order to win an election. From there he can then implement policies that will help those who need it most.

It’s a very fine line.