Keir Starmer

The last thing the left need is further dilution of the left vote with yet another party. If they spent less time being ideological snobs rather than creating a new party - they might actually get somewhere. A great example of this left snobbery is how the left always cite those who don’t hold identical views that are far enough left as [insert insult here] - your post starts with that same tried and tested philosophy. I actually agree with the notion of nationalising our core infrastructure - yet I’m one of those centrist mugs. I have historically voted Tory, I accept there is no perfect party out there for me - I don’t disagree a new party would be great but not one wedded to political ideologies but one wedded to decency and common sense. The left seem so determined to want to discuss decades old ideologies and putting people into boxes they ignore the fact that very few voters fit those boxes. It’s like an Oxford Union debating society. Carry on, it’s intriguing to watch the left tear themselves apart about how left they are whilst simultaneously insulting the centrist/left leaning electorate.

Just on this point: The French government has increased its majority stake in the national energy enterprise EDF and thus is able to shield the French people from the speculators’ global energy cartel.

The french are largely powered with nuclear power - to cap energy bills at 4% has cost them around £8bn… our intervention so far has cost over £9bn. We are where we are, the French had the good sense to opt for nuclear in the late 70s when we had the last energy crisis… we didn’t, few did. Although they now face an expensive refit/replacement cycle which will cost between £400-500bn and the French government is now acquiring that obligation on behalf of the tax payers (assuming a program of 50% renewables and 50% nuclear). Ouch.
So many ironies in one post. You bemoan the left for insulting people and putting them into boxes and then call them all ideological snobs who are solely to blame for the state of the Labour Party because they are obsessed with socialism.

The only decades old ideology that is under the microscope here is neo-liberalism and it's failures are all around us with our crumbling infrastructure. Nationalisation has popular support, even amongst Conservatives such as yourself, so why is the supposed party of the left not embracing it ? Is the insane belief in market based solutions for everything not ideological purity?

If socialism was seen as the cause of the crisis of the 70's and had to be confined to the dustbin of history shouldn't neo-liberalism suffer the same fate for what we are facing today?

Also when it comes to insults 'centrist mug' is mild compared to those dished out by the likes of Reeves (scum) and Streeting (barnacles on the bottom of a boat) when describing the left.
 
Keith should follow the Biden on route by calling the Tories extremists intent on destroying the country.

The polling would go through the roof.
Nah he should be banging the drum for nationalisation and highlighting the absurdity of foreign owned operators creaming off profits from running our services while we literally swim in shit. Could sell it as taking back control people will lap it up.

The problem is that he has already promised it once to get elected and then backtracked. Why would anyone believe him?
 
So many ironies in one post. You bemoan the left for insulting people and putting them into boxes and then call them all ideological snobs who are solely to blame for the state of the Labour Party because they are obsessed with socialism.

The only decades old ideology that is under the microscope here is neo-liberalism and it's failures are all around us with our crumbling infrastructure. Nationalisation has popular support, even amongst Conservatives such as yourself, so why is the supposed party of the left not embracing it ? Is the insane belief in market based solutions for everything not ideological purity?

If socialism was seen as the cause of the crisis of the 70's and had to be confined to the dustbin of history shouldn't neo-liberalism suffer the same fate for what we are facing today?

Also when it comes to insults 'centrist mug' is mild compared to those dished out by the likes of Reeves (scum) and Streeting (barnacles on the bottom of a boat) when describing the left.

Some fair criticisms of my post in there. I don’t think the vast majority of people really want much different to each other, we do disagree about how to get there for sure and that’s boils down to ideologies.

I don’t see nationalise / not nationalise question as a ideological position per-se - privatisation itself certainly started as an ideological policy and in some quarters it has remained so - but surely we’ve had it for long enough to able to ask and answer the questions of has it worked and is it what we want? I’m sure Labour could present this as policy of “review of privatised industries” a genuine independent enquiry. It would surely appeal to a broad church without actually committing them to an ideological position.

Any road to renationalise will of course run into remaining legacy fears around “workers holding the country to ransom” - here the unions need to step forward and offer realistic proposals and reassurances that are legally binding. I’ve worked in businesses of similar sizes and revenues to the railways and there isn’t this disconnect between the board and workers, this them versus us attitude needs to be consigned to the history books by building trust on all sides. When your employer is the government it’s harder to trust them, particularly if you don’t agree with their politics. Maybe the distance privatisation created between government interference and service is one of the benefits we can keep and improve on.
 
We really do need a new party of the left. Let the centrist mugs do there thing, sadly it may well mean more years of the Tories but I am hoping an annilihation of the centrist mugs at the next election finally condemns them to the dustbin of history just like there SDP and Liberal forbears.

Starmers refusal to call for nationalisation of the basic needs industries is the final blow for me.

LABOUR’S road to election victory would be more certain if it presented a raft of policies which tackle the real-life problems faced by the many millions whose living depends on their wages, their pensions or the benefits they have earned and deserve.

Unite’s Sharon Graham has done us a service by pointing out as sharply as she did on BBC Radio 4’s Broadcasting House programme that the issue is “abhorrent profits” and “what is happening with the cost of living.”

In the face of a self-induced paralysis of government — occasioned by the inability or unwillingness of the two contenders for the leadership of the Tory Party to say what are their proposals for dealing with the energy price crisis — Labour has an open goal.

With its latest proposal, Labour has sent the ball in the right direction but missed the goal mouth.

The fact is that Labour’s £29 billion energy bills scheme is not ambitious enough to cover the anticipated increase in the energy price cap, because it fails to take account of the average consumer’s increased energy in the winter.

The Institute of Fiscal Studies estimates argues that Labour’s scheme to freeze the price cap would cost at least £8 billion more than Labour estimates.

Sir Keir Starmer’s £29bn scheme calls for the government to freeze household energy bills at the springtime 2022 price cap until April next year, rather than letting it shoot up in October 2022 and January 2023.

Labour is silent on whether households should be directly funded to pay bills or the energy companies directly subsidised. Either way this will be our money going to shareholders. Nationalisation is a better option.

Those on the left who have always opposed the privatisation of energy production and distribution can take some satisfaction from the fact that substantial majorities of opinion — encompassing even a majority of Conservative voters — are in favour of public ownership of utilities, rail and mail.

Ownership is key and with the entire sector publicly owned a government, if it so willed, could take such steps as are necessary to ensure continued supplies at reasonable cost.

The French government has increased its majority stake in the national energy enterprise EDF and thus is able to shield the French people from the speculators’ global energy cartel.

We can speculate on the factors that induced the impeccably neoliberal big business-friendly ex-banker who sits in the Elysee to devise this scheme but it seems improbable that President Emmanuel Macron was simply moved by concern for the French people, a majority of whom did not vote for him.

Perhaps he is frightened that to the “gilets jaune” who mobilised against the government when he put the petrol price up might be joined once gain by the “gilets rouge” of the Confederation Generale du Travail.

We have to ask ourselves why, in the face of such broad support for public ownership and the proven value of this in dealing with the energy price crisis, Labour does not attack the Tories where they are weakest.

If Labour is not careful, whoever wins the Tory leadership will come out with a policy that is more radical than Labour’s.

It would be ridiculous if, during a massive wave of pay strikes, Labour remains committed to a minimum wage policy less generous than the Tories’ and at risk from being outflanked on the main issue which shapes the political and economic views of the British people

Just fucking go Starmer, you are fucking useless.
Here’s a thought..

Unite Labour and the left to get the Tories out and decimate them in Parliament.

Once Labour are in power, try to move the party to the left, or launch a new party of the left as an opposition to Labour.

That movement would have a far higher chance of success if there was an incumbent Labour government rather than a Tory one.

The UK political needle has been moving further rightwards for the last 12 years. It needs to be dragged back to the middle before you can move it too far left.

It’s just absolutely bizarre how if people can’t have their exact perfect birthday present Labour now, they’d prefer to stick with the Tories. Spoiled, snobby, weird.
 
That’s a really good post mate and I agree with the bulk of it and I am a centrist mug.

Things have to change in society drastically. Current policy and the way of things is letting us down with increasingly disastrous effect.

Westminster as a whole is seemingly bereft of any idea as to how to change things it seems.

Nationalisation of key industries like energy, rail etc, an end to abhorrent profiteering by the few at the expense of the many and fair working conditions and pay for the millions of us that go out each and every day to make the whole thing work is not too much to expect imo.
I think Starmer is quite wise to keep his counsel until he knows who he’s going to be running against.

It reminds me of an old football anecdote.

Mourinho and Pep were asked if you had a Champions League Final tomorrow, what would be your perfect team.

Mourinho said: compact, narrow back 4, a deep lying midfielder screening them, two just in front who drop out of possession, wingers who tuck in and break quickly, and a physical number 9 to hold the ball up.

Pep said: “who are we playing?”.
 
Here’s a thought..

Unite Labour and the left to get the Tories out and decimate them in Parliament.

Once Labour are in power, try to move the party to the left, or launch a new party of the left as an opposition to Labour.

That movement would have a far higher chance of success if there was an incumbent Labour government rather than a Tory one.

The UK political needle has been moving further rightwards for the last 12 years. It needs to be dragged back to the middle before you can move it too far left.

It’s just absolutely bizarre how if people can’t have their exact perfect birthday present Labour now, they’d prefer to stick with the Tories. Spoiled, snobby, weird.
This is where I get conflicted.

I am a LP member. I have been suspended in the past for saying and doing thing Sir Keir doesn't like.

Part of me says bite the pillow. Campaign for him in the belief that should labour get in with a majority we will see some of the changes I'd like to see as it will be a labour government and the chase for votes for the next election won't be until 3 years into the term. Which if the policies are popular might be enough to keep them in power for another term.

And part of me says fuck em. I want to be campaigning for social democratic ideals not neo liberal ones.
 
This is where I get conflicted.

I am a LP member. I have been suspended in the past for saying and doing thing Sir Keir doesn't like.

Part of me says bite the pillow. Campaign for him in the belief that should labour get in with a majority we will see some of the changes I'd like to see as it will be a labour government and the chase for votes for the next election won't be until 3 years into the term. Which if the policies are popular might be enough to keep them in power for another term.

And part of me says fuck em. I want to be campaigning for social democratic ideals not neo liberal ones.
Well saying “fuck em” is essentially saying “fuck em” to the poorest and most vulnerable members of society in the name of throwing your toys out of the pram.

Whatever your ideals are, if you’re on the left my guess is you want a decent living wage, the right to strike, the right to protest, a decent state education, massive improvement in the financing and running of an always free to use NHS, pensioners and children not having to worry about turning the fucking heating or lighting on over the winter.

If you want all those things, ask yourself is that more likely under the Tories or Kier Starmer.

Saying “fuck em” and making ordinary people’s lives worse because Starmer isn’t Corbyny enough is so absurd it sounds like something out of a Two Ronnies sketch.
 
Some fair criticisms of my post in there. I don’t think the vast majority of people really want much different to each other, we do disagree about how to get there for sure and that’s boils down to ideologies.

I don’t see nationalise / not nationalise question as a ideological position per-se - privatisation itself certainly started as an ideological policy and in some quarters it has remained so - but surely we’ve had it for long enough to able to ask and answer the questions of has it worked and is it what we want? I’m sure Labour could present this as policy of “review of privatised industries” a genuine independent enquiry. It would surely appeal to a broad church without actually committing them to an ideological position.
Not sure 'once in office we will commission a public enquiry into the failures of privitisation and act on it's recommendations ' is going to set pulses racing let alone fit on the side of a bus...

But again why is making the case for nationalisation an ideological position but insisting that the solutions lie within the framework of neo-liberalism not?
Any road to renationalise will of course run into remaining legacy fears around “workers holding the country to ransom” - here the unions need to step forward and offer realistic proposals and reassurances that are legally binding. I’ve worked in businesses of similar sizes and revenues to the railways and there isn’t this disconnect between the board and workers, this them versus us attitude needs to be consigned to the history books by building trust on all sides. When your employer is the government it’s harder to trust them, particularly if you don’t agree with their politics. Maybe the distance privatisation created between government interference and service is one of the benefits we can keep and improve on.
Noticeable that you suggest it is the unions who need to step forward and be 'realistic' in order to build trust on both sides and not employers. There are bad employers out there ... take mine for instance.

 

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