Keir Starmer

Mon Autre said:
Labour's manifesto wasn't especially bonkers. There were very few complaints from the party centrists on its content. The disagreements were on how the message was put across and how undue attention was put on policies that didn't capture the public imagination. People are getting excited about Keir Starmer but his politics aren't a radical departure from those of Corbyn to be honest. He does seems to be winning people over across different sides of the party though. The landscape of politics in the country has changed and i'm not totally convinced there is that much of a centre ground anymore. If the party has ideas that can actually work that happen to be towards the centre, then i'm not ideologically opposed to them. But the party can't just ditch its underlying principles in pursuit of a this mythical centre ground that doesn't really seem to delivering votes.
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I'm not sure complaining about your own parties manifesto during an election is wise or typical tbh mate. Not sure how else they could sell it they basically made a list of everything they feel is wrong with the country and said they would throw money at it. Until this is realised then their next manifesto will be disbelieved and much pretty laughed at again.

Not enough people outside the core vote took them seriously.
 
Mon Autre said:
I think Nandy historically has been seen as on the left of the party. Don't forget, in 2015 Owen Jones was pleading with her to run for the leadership as the left wing candidate. She didn't because she'd just had a baby, but ironically, if she had have done that then Corbyn probably wouldn't have put himself forward. I think her cred was badly damaged on the left of the party when she threw her weight behind the Owen Smith challenge, but I think her politics remain to the left.
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I have met Lisa Nandy at a conference where she spoke to us about her rise to becoming an MP and 1-2-1 afterwards over a brew. I didn't like her - I formed the opinion she would say or agree with whatever she thought her audience wanted to hear. Now that was 4 years ago and she may have changed but she does seem to be left leaning at the moment because it suits her. I just don't like her having been up close as it were. Jess Phillips might be a good idea in the long run. She is doing a Johnson at the moment - "funny" comments about posh people vs people who have just eaten olives and impassioned speeches about womens rights........... I think she is developing a persona like Johnson did with hosting HIGNFY and the like ready to have a tilt at the top another time.
 
Watching Thornberry on The Andrew Neil show.

I know it's highly unlikely she'll get the job but if she was to then Labour would be properly fucked.
 
Ban-jani said:
It was just a wish list containing what they thought the working classes wanted. Which they spectacularly got wrong, as the public know full well you can’t grow money on trees. Free WiFi for all, WASPI women covered, nationalise several industries at once, building a new drugs company to service NHS, completely scrapping tuition fees (it’s as if the motion to lower the voting age was a tactic to offer this bribe) etc. etc.

Now free WiFi and WASPI pay out aside, I’m not principally against any of those policies individually, if it’s proven it will work/be beneficial, but together they present a massive outlay in spending and one in which most people, including the IFS, didn’t buy.
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The WASPI pledge wasn't actually in the manifesto it was announced a few days later by McDonnell. Someone I know (slightly) who works in the Labour HQ told me it was a panic move as their private polling was showing they were heading for a heavy defeat and the launch of the manifesto hadn't budged their rating
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
The WASPI pledge wasn't actually in the manifesto it was announced a few days later by McDonnell. Someone I know (slightly) who works in the Labour HQ told me it was a panic move as their private polling was showing they were heading for a heavy defeat and the launch of the manifesto hadn't budged their rating
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Well I mean that just shows how utterly useless they were.
 
Cheesy said:
Watching Thornberry on The Andrew Neil show.

I know it's highly unlikely she'll get the job but if she was to then Labour would be properly fucked.
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i couldnt vote for her. Yeah brought up in a council house but she now typifies the smug islington elite that is all that is bad about labour the quip about ‘white van man’ a few yeara back sums her up.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Spot on. Absolutely spot on. If we want better rail services, then *someone* needs to pay for it - either through higher ticket prices, or by higher government subsidy funded by taxation. Or both. But to imagine simply changing ownership will fix anything, is pure fantasy. Who owns it, is not the issue, so changing who owns it, won't change anything. Actually it would probably make it worse since once under government ownership, no-one would give a toss about poor performance.
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Not a question of "wanting" better rail services. We need them. The rail network is critical infrastructure. I don't much care who I get my gas and electricity from so don't care if that's not nationalised. There's no competition with water so may as well nationalise it.

If we're going to have privatised railways then let's have some proper competition, as I've said before, rather than regional monopolies. But whether they're private or nationalised, there's no excuse for not investing in them properly.
 
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Here's how to increase investment.
1. Abandon bidding for the franchise on the basis of the fee to be paid. The TOCs just bid ludicrous numbers, then get into trouble further down the line.
2. Let the contracts on the following basis:
i) the TOC to pay a percentage of t/o to gov.
ii) Convert all shares in TOCs to bonds, with a fixed %age return.
iii) Continue with subsidy to TOCs, over 90% of which goes thru to Railtrack in return for investment in permanent way. This gives TOCs leverage to get the improvements they want.
3. TOCs to bid on the basis of:
i) the percentage of t/o they will pay for the franchise. Could be 0%, depending on investment plan.
ii) the amount, nature and timing of investment, based on t/o and borrowing.
iii) the improvements to service planned over the franchise term.
iv) Fares policy to be stated in terms of increases and £volume forecast during the franchise term.
4. Franchise awarded on the merits of 3(i) to (iv).
 
This question is aimed at those posters who are actually members of the Labour Party.

I'm voting for Starmer, anyone else up for saying who they're voting for?
 
hilts said:
Your first paragraph should tell why the second one isn’t very logical. If you bring the Labour Party to the centre a bit then you will still have the votes of those on the left because they don’t really have anywhere relevant to go. You cannot use the failure of the independent group in a fptp system as a reason for the Labour Party to become a bit less bonkers.
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Well said
 
Is Emily Thornberry still in the running ?? After her rambling incoherent performance tonight the Tories and their mates must be joining the Labour party to vote for her.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Not a question of "wanting" better rail services. We need them. The rail network is critical infrastructure. I don't much care who I get my gas and electricity from so don't care if that's not nationalised. There's no competition with water so may as well nationalise it.

If we're going to have privatised railways then let's have some proper competition, as I've said before, rather than regional monopolies. But whether they're private or nationalised, there's no excuse for not investing in them properly.
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No arguments from me here. Agree entirely.
 
It looks like even the party membership has taken on board the fact that another Corbynesque manifesto would get an even bigger drubbing at the next election than the recent one. Starmer seems to be a shoo-in as RLB is a busted flush even with the expected support from Unite and with Momentum campaigning for her.

The interesting thing then will be to see if all the assorted Marxist and far left elements who joined for £3 and installed Corbyn will fuck off as clearly Starmer won't be saying the things they want to hear.
 
Unite backing RLB.

Now there's a surprise!


McCluskey - it was solely Brexit that cost Labour the election. The manifesto was extremely popular.


Edit - and backing Burgon as deputy.
 
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