Keir Starmer

The perfect fumble said:
With respect and I mean that, this is utter tosh. The third way is a distinct political ideology, it is not in the middle of anything.

A brief history of the third way
As Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson host a Downing Street seminar to revive the so-called third way, Anne Mellbye looks back at the development of New Labour's ideology

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/10/labour.uk1

This is the central lie at the root of the third way.....

Prof Giddens argued that reformist governments could no longer rely on traditional statist programmes in the face of powerful global financial forces. Instead, political parties could generate significant consensual support by campaigning from the centre, while remaining committed to radical measures. He therefore advised New Labour not to be afraid of being called conservative.

And there you have it, you campaign from the centre, by redefining the centre to the point of meaninglessness, while re-labelling conservatism as new Labour.

Why didn't I think of that!

gettyimages-471312128.jpg


You did Dave, you did.
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Do you consider record investment in the NHS, record investment in state education and an unprecedented expansion of the welfare state to be "Conservative" policies?
 
The perfect fumble said:
Left one way, right the other way, yeah got it.

Where's the third way? it was named third way to rubbish that political spectrum, it wasn't just the name of the shop.

But don't take my word for it.....

"the third way stated that the old class-based divisions of left and right are now redundant."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/10/labour.uk1

Want to try again?
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It’s the green bit in the middle and they choose their policies from both the left way and the right way.

This is primary school level politics.
 
Ban-jani said:
That’s not Third Way politics, if you’re going to sneer at something at least learn to know what it is.

In layman’s terms it’s selecting each policy on merit, often choosing from both the left and the right for different policies.

It’s successful because it’s a mature approach and objective, not driven by ideology, which Corbynism is.

A Blairite would never nationalise the broadband industry, as it’s a fucking stupid idea, whereas Corbyn and McDonnell wanted to because, well they’re socialists, even though it would have ruined the industry and lost many jobs.
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The best 2 sentences in any political thread ever.
 
Ban-jani said:
Blairite economics with traditional views.

The SDP are the closest to me personally, Blue Labour possibly.

We need a competitive private sector that thrives.
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Totally agree on the necessity of a thriving private sector.

But on "traditional views" it's a bit of a murky term often rolled out by the likes of Nigel Ferage and Ted Cruz when they're hiding behind old-fashioned values to discriminate against people they don't like.

"Socially conservative" to me means gutting the NHS and state education of funding, which are the two things I would never vote for.
 
Shaelumstash said:
Totally agree on the necessity of a thriving private sector.

But on "traditional views" it's a bit of a murky term often rolled out by the likes of Nigel Ferage and Ted Cruz when they're hiding behind old-fashioned values to discriminate against people they don't like.

"Socially conservative" to me means gutting the NHS and state education of funding, which are the two things I would never vote for.
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I think recent weeks shows what the NHS should be, front line, emergency, straight in with proactive treatment and care. The old bureaucratic waiting times, lack of beds, months for an "appointment", bed blocking, constant referrals and clogged up A&Es is what needs eradicating. This has shown the blue print for every department. Resources focused on the front line, investment in infrastructure and required machinery and gut the rest to pay for it.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Left one way, right the other way, yeah got it.

Where's the third way? it was named third way to rubbish that political spectrum, it wasn't just the name of the shop.

But don't take my word for it.....

"the third way stated that the old class-based divisions of left and right are now redundant."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/10/labour.uk1

Want to try again?
Click to expand...
You're still not getting it.

The idea of the Third Way is to invest more in to the state - NHS, schools etc.

And as opposed to the "old class-based divisions" of just taxing the rich to pay for it, instead, to encourage the private sector economy to grow so that there is a bigger tax base.

It's weird, because the Corbyn cultists don't seem happy with increased state spending. That's not enough. They don't seem overly concerned with actually helping people. They just want to punish rich people. Very odd.
 
Shaelumstash said:
Totally agree on the necessity of a thriving private sector.

But on "traditional views" it's a bit of a murky term often rolled out by the likes of Nigel Ferage and Ted Cruz when they're hiding behind old-fashioned values to discriminate against people they don't like.

"Socially conservative" to me means gutting the NHS and state education of funding, which are the two things I would never vote for.
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It’s possible to separate the man from the policy and despite the fact I don’t like Farage as a man, I agreed with a lot of the Brexit Party manifesto, surprisingly, as I voted remain.

It’s not a murky term if you look into it properly, into Edmund Burke and if you look into what proper conservatism is. It doesn’t have to mean no NHS etc.

Those that founded the NHS were more conservative than the current Tory Party.
 
Shaelumstash said:
You're still not getting it.

The idea of the Third Way is to invest more in to the state - NHS, schools etc.

And as opposed to the "old class-based divisions" of just taxing the rich to pay for it, instead, to encourage the private sector economy to grow so that there is a bigger tax base.

It's weird, because the Corbyn cultists don't seem happy with increased state spending. That's not enough. They don't seem overly concerned with actually helping people. They just want to punish rich people. Very odd.
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It's very odd, because it's at odds with reality, like your post.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s the green bit in the middle and they choose their policies from both the left way and the right way.

This is primary school level politics.
Click to expand...

Nailed it.

That reflects a huge proportion of the electorate and appeal to it like Blair did and you will win GE's.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Ask this guy....

0_Chancellor-Rishi-Sunak.jpg
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A/ this is a crisis and shouldn’t be judged as what his usual policy would be

B/ it is possible the Tories enact some left policies, as we saw from Brexit they’re a broad spectrum of MPs

C/ this is a crisis and shouldn’t be judged as what his usual policy would be
 
BJL_City said:
I think recent weeks shows what the NHS should be, front line, emergency, straight in with proactive treatment and care. The old bureaucratic waiting times, lack of beds, months for an "appointment", bed blocking, constant referrals and clogged up A&Es is what needs eradicating. This has shown the blue print for every department. Resources focused on the front line, investment in infrastructure and required machinery and gut the rest to pay for it.
Click to expand...
It's extraordinary times we're in, many cancer patients are being denied treatment to free up capacity. I don't really think that's the long term answer - to "gut" all health service bar A&E.

Waiting times were at their lowest level ever under Blair. There was proper funding and proper management in place to help the thing run properly.

Cameron came in and completely gutted the management structure, cut funding and put more nurses in place of managers. But in the 20th century it's not a model that works. Nursing staff are busy enough without having to manage the thing as well.

It's was cuts and restructure for idealogical reasons, which has continued for 10 years. I don't want to see poor kids turned away from hospital for cancer treatment because their parents didn't pay for insurance.
 
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