Your knowledge of history is based on myth. That is not your fault, the myths are used so often that it is easy to believe they are true.Have you given up debating ifwecouldjust? Do you think you have assumed some kind of moral high ground because you have called me a tory yet you have no idea what my politics actually are. All i did was correct your lack of historical knowledge on some countries and how a country borrows money. You havent taken that very well have you. I wont lose any sleep tonight. You Mat and Rascal would do well as ardent socialists to just admit when you have a fact or two wrong. Rather than just trying to obtain some bizzare moral high ground.
I live in the same area as you and my Labour councillor is brilliant, I never hear from the Tories and the Lib Dems dare not come near my house because I would get very very sweary at them.I don’t think this is a shock.
Labour do not represent millions of people and at council level in particular they are pretty terrible.
the Lib Dem and conservative councillors in my area - people know who they are, they are local and seem to actually care about some of the local issues. The Labour councillors I don’t have a clue who they are and the only time I’ve heard from them is when they are signing away green belt ( for ridiculously priced average houses).
Labour need to get away from London and start connecting with the towns , working class and have a bit of pride in Britain otherwise they will never win another election.
I have read many books on ww2, probably 25 to 30 so its a bit of a nerdy hobby for me. So i do know a little bit about the subject. Perhaps those historians are all wrong and your chap is right. Best leave it there.Your knowledge of history is based on myth. That is not your fault, the myths are used so often that it is easy to believe they are true.
That is what the RW have and are doing with this culture war nonsense, they are attempting to rewrite history and use it for nationalistic purpose. Basically it appeases the flag shaggers and appeals to the little Englanders.
If you want to read more on it read Fintan O'Toole, he explains it far better than i can.
Because it is a myth.Jeeze, i still cant believe that Rascal who always comes across as very knowledgeable has said that it was extreme right wing ideological myth that Britain stood alone between 1940 and 1941.
Mate, regardless of whether farage or the extreme right wing used this. You are on very dodgy ground stating what you did if you think that will aid the socialist cause in this country. Its rhetoric like that and pictures of him standing next to terrorists and inviting IRA members into the houses of parliment that did more damage to corbyn than offering free wifi. Anyway have a good evening, im off down the pub to have a freezing pint.
Jeeze, i still cant believe that Rascal who always comes across as very knowledgeable has said that it was extreme right wing ideological myth that Britain stood alone between 1940 and 1941.
Mate, regardless of whether farage or the extreme right wing used this. You are on very dodgy ground stating what you did if you think that will aid the socialist cause in this country. Its rhetoric like that and pictures of him standing next to terrorists and inviting IRA members into the houses of parliment that did more damage to corbyn than offering free wifi. Anyway have a good evening, im off down the pub to have a freezing pint.
i do actually. Bonds and Gilts my friend as i pointed out in an earlier post.
I always said Starmer was not electable, Neither is Nandy.I have read many books on ww2, probably 25 to 30 so its a bit of a nerdy hobby for me. So i do know a little bit about the subject. Perhaps those historians are all wrong and your chap is right. Best leave it there.
Anyway back on track, i did call this, I said Starmer wasnt electable for the northern working class and they should have picked Nandy. Most on here said i was wrong. I cant recall what you said Rascal.
I live in the same area as you and my Labour councillor is brilliant, I never hear from the Tories and the Lib Dems dare not come near my house because I would get very very sweary at them.
Who is the Lib Dem councillor, do you know?
' That's why they now vote Tory' you end your post by saying.they are but they have to understand the new working class.
we are aspirational. we want a better life. we want a better car. A nicer area, schools and parks, crime down and if we work hard we want to reap the rewards .
the days of whole communities in the north relying on the pit or steel works staying open are gone. Labour still haven’t grasped this collective unionised approach.
most people work in the private sector now and want a government who rewards people who work hard.
voting Labour for the new working class is not aspirational, it is aspirational though for London media luvvies who have made it in life but who wrongly think the new working class want more benefits And support.
They don’t . They want better schools, less crime and people who work hard to have opportunities for good local jobs. That’s why they now vote tory.
even mandelson understand this.
It's an odd one that those on the far right get tetchy about Churchill, especially given he opposed traditional conservatives of the Farage ilk who actually wanted peace with Nazi Germany to preserve the empire.I am not playing down the role of Great Britain at all, Churchill was a great but inherently flawed leader, but one we needed at that time. We played our part in the defeat of Fascism, but at no point did we ever stand alone against it. That is the myth the RW play on, they love to imagine the plucky Tommy stood on the white cliffs of Dover ready with his pitchfork to fight Panzer divisions. It is total nonsense. Look at Farage playing up to that myth stood on the white cliffs ready to repel hoards of immigrants. It is implanted in peoples minds that we stood alone, so the likes of Farage use that myth.
I have no idea why you think I meant standing up to fascism is RW, Fascism is an extreme form of Conservatism and should be opposed by all people with any semblance of sanity.
I don't think they have represented me at all. One of them lives on my street yet the only time I have seen him walk past my house is a few days before election time. My car got Robbed in December, had tons of break ins on the next streets around us yet this guy is my neighbour and we don't hear a peep when concerns are raised. We have a local street patrol that go out at night because we have Zero police presence. They even tried to stop them going out and helping the community and failsworth street patrol got absolutely no support for the good work they do.nowt to do with the tories slashing funding for police then ? resulting in 23000 front line bobbies being removed?
' That's why they now vote Tory' you end your post by saying.
Why would anyone in Hartlepool vote Tory using your criteria given what has happened to that city since the Tories took power in 2010?
The answer being the issues you failed to mention - brexit,nationalism,anti immigration and the general socially conservative nature of the working class.
The other issue is that they will believe the media ( the Tories friend) that their decline is nothing at all to do with the Tories but is due to the financial crash and the previous Labour government.
There will be no levelling up - just some minimal pork barrel politic spending in those red wall seats that voted Tory. Tax cuts where they can be afforded for middle class earners. All limited due to the pandemic. Big manana promises for the next Parliament which will never materialise. Culture and identity wars to be actively encouraged.The media will support all this.
The Tories have it all tied up - a socially conservative working class ( anti welfare etc) which is now more brexity, nationalistic and anti immigration and a right wing economic middle class AND of course a supportive media in the press and a timid broadcast media.
Don't really disagree with you. It's a pretty bleak prospect and will only change when FPTP is gone. Labour bottled it by not instituting Proportional Representation under the Blair eraCorbyn had a personality about him, what difference did that make ?
Labour are just divided, half want more left socialist other half want liberal middle left.
they're screwed, whatever leader they get won't please, he will be set in one camp or the other and it's Labour voters that will squabble about it. meanwhile , the Tories will just roll on.
Both him and McDonnell doing the TV rounds today. Taking responsibility for the GE result.Intriguingly, Corbyn has just been given a long interview on Channel Four, and he was claiming that Labour's Brexit policy at the last GE (renegotiate and have a second referendum) was his invention. I think some here were saying it was Starmer's idea.
That isn't your local council reps fault though, it's the fault of central government (the Tories). Policing has been slashed.I don't think they have represented me at all. One of them lives on my street yet the only time I have seen him walk past my house is a few days before election time. My car got Robbed in December, had tons of break ins on the next streets around us yet this guy is my neighbour and we don't hear a peep when concerns are raised. We have a local street patrol that go out at night because we have Zero police presence. They even tried to stop them going out and helping the community and failsworth street patrol got absolutely no support for the good work they do.
People are rightly fucked off in failsworth. Hopefully the independent will do more to serve our community now.