Keir Starmer

Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Yawn - there is a EU/brexit thread for all 5-6 of you to vent. The self-harming mess that is brexit is testament to the failure of the remain campaign to engage with the electorate and score what should have been an open goal. Ultimately the conservative party played a blinder by making their opposition choose between stabbing each other in the back by ousting Corbyn, or stopping brexit and split the vote. Congratulations - you got rid of the Czech spy, IRA / Hamas sympathiser and anti-Semite. Brexit apparently was a price worth paying.......
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Over simplifying the issue somewhat
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Keep asking yourself and maybe the penny will drop. Brexit thread that way ......
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Brexit is everywhere.

Empty shelves. By-election results. Johnsonian lies.

I'm not going to confine Brexit to the thread that Brexiters avoid.

And is it my imagination, or like Brexiters have given up trying to defend Brexit, have Tories given up trying to defend this government? Or (like the BBC yesterday) is the agenda now just talking about the problems of opposition?
 
Vic said:
Good grief. Another poster who reckons Brexit is the fault of the people who didn't want it.

What is this idiocy?
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In a way the Brexit we ended up with is the fault of those who did not want Brexit. Trying to stop BREXIT, made the lunatic wing of the BREXIT mob more determined to make it the way it has turned out. I blame the Government for their poor handling of it myself, but they were given a mandate to handle it badly because the stop BREXIT buffoons put stopping BREXIT before stopping the Tories. Of course Labour should have backed the democratic mandate instead of the prevaricating we got from Starmer, but its all history now. The Tories are untouchable.
 
Rascal said:
In a way the Brexit we ended up with is the fault of those who did not want Brexit. Trying to stop BREXIT, made the lunatic wing of the BREXIT mob more determined to make it the way it has turned out. I blame the Government for their poor handling of it myself, but they were given a mandate to handle it badly because the stop BREXIT buffoons put stopping BREXIT before stopping the Tories. Of course Labour should have backed the democratic mandate instead of the prevaricating we got from Starmer, but its all history now. The Tories are untouchable.
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I didn't start this trawling over what might have been but...

Staying in the EEA would have been the obvious solution, but once May committed to leaving the CU and the SM, it had to be opposed. From "no deal is better than a bad deal" the venal Tories led us to the Frost/Johnson "we haven't a clue" deal.

But "prevaricating from Starmer"? None of it the fault of "7 out of 10" Corbyn?

As for the Tories are untouchable, do I detect a bit of Gallowayesque disappointment about Batley and Spen?

"Had the Tories won, it would have prompted a grim conclusion about the current state of our politics, suggesting that the Conservative party has developed a kind of herd impunity, one that allows them to get away with any and every thing. For them to have gained a seat off the opposition – less than a week after the health secretary was exposed as a florid hypocrite, violating the very rules he had pressed upon everyone else, and a matter of days after the prime minister was re-confirmed as a liar, falsely claiming to have fired that minister when in fact he had shrugged off his misconduct – would have meant that the Conservatives were now fully inoculated against accountability."

(Jonathan Freedland)
www.theguardian.com

Starmer has a little breathing space after Batley and Spen. He must use it wisely | Jonathan Freedland

The byelection victory is a relief, but Labour’s bedrock is breaking across northern England and the Midlands, says the Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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The Guardian is not worth reading. They are liberal, pro-Blairite to the core and they as much as anybody caused Johnson.

You are Pro-EU and I know nothing will change that, my thoughts are Osborne did the Labour party over like a kipper, he was very clever, bordering on genius because it split the Labour party and united the Tory party. That has created a Tory hegemony and it will remain a hegemony as long as people oppose BREXIT before they oppose the Tories. If the Labour right totally dominate the party and that is the way it is heading, Labour will possibly become the party of rejoin and then the Tories will be in power for generations.

Have you looked at Professor Danny Dorlings explanation of the Brexit vote btw? If not have a look, it is eye opening and it shows how wrong the Guardian have been.
 
Rascal said:
The Guardian is not worth reading. They are liberal, pro-Blairite to the core and they as much as anybody caused Johnson.

You are Pro-EU and I know nothing will change that, my thoughts are Osborne did the Labour party over like a kipper, he was very clever, bordering on genius because it split the Labour party and united the Tory party. That has created a Tory hegemony and it will remain a hegemony as long as people oppose BREXIT before they oppose the Tories. If the Labour right totally dominate the party and that is the way it is heading, Labour will possibly become the party of rejoin and then the Tories will be in power for generations.

Have you looked at Professor Danny Dorlings explanation of the Brexit vote btw? If not have a look, it is eye opening and it shows how wrong the Guardian have been.
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This one?



People voted for the apparent anti-establishment offer that will only further inequality and the richest's income as percentage of GDP.
 
Thats the guy, but i have seen other stuff of his.

It is worth looking on you tube for him. He is brilliant.
 
Vic said:
Brexit is everywhere.

Empty shelves. By-election results. Johnsonian lies.

I'm not going to confine Brexit to the thread that Brexiters avoid.

And is it my imagination, or like Brexiters have given up trying to defend Brexit, have Tories given up trying to defend this government? Or (like the BBC yesterday) is the agenda now just talking about the problems of opposition?
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No one needs to 'defend brexit' any more than we need to defend our coast from Vikings. They are both battles that are over. You have a thread for your bitter musings and as you can see no one besides a few obsessives are interested. Everyone else has moved on Vic.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
This one?



People voted for the apparent anti-establishment offer that will only further inequality and the richest's income as percentage of GDP.
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I doubt both his statistical research and his conclusions. The former seems at odds with Ashcroft's extensive polling, and the idea that the middle class rebelled against inequality seems frankly bizarre.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
No one needs to 'defend brexit' any more than we need to defend our coast from Vikings. They are both battles that are over. You have a thread for your bitter musings and as you can see no one besides a few obsessives are interested. Everyone else has moved on Vic.
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You seem interested. Or just wumming.

"I am not going to defend Brexit, as there is no need, as we have moved on to just moaning about the shortages in the shops which are totally unrelated to Brexit." Oh yeah, sure.
 
Vic said:
I doubt both his statistical research and his conclusions. The former seems at odds with Ashcroft's extensive polling, and the idea that the middle class rebelled against inequality seems frankly bizarre.
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That’s a simplistic reading of his argument. The majority of the both Yes and No were middle class. They didn't vote explicitly to get rid of inequality but because of the causes of it.

People voting against immigrants because they had been lied to about the reasons for their poorer pay and working conditions, or the difficulty of their children being able to move out and get their own place for a reasonable proportion of their salary. Pales into comparison when compared with families living in cramped unsuitable temporary accommodation, but it is still an important motivation towards "let's try something new".

They still feel the effects of living in the most neo-liberal country in the continent even if they don't recognise the true cause. How do the rich get a bigger slice of the pie? They squeeze out the lower middle and middle-middle class into taking a smaller share than their predecessors.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
That’s a simplistic reading of his argument. The majority of the both Yes and No were middle class. They didn't vote explicitly to get rid of inequality but because of the causes of it.
.....
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All that means is that the middle class are so defined that they outnumber upper and lower classes.

Ashcroft's research had support for Brexit increasing with age, and decreasing with wealth (or at least with social clsss) and with education (hence the denigration of "experts").
 
Vic said:
You seem interested. Or just wumming.

"I am not going to defend Brexit, as there is no need, as we have moved on to just moaning about the shortages in the shops which are totally unrelated to Brexit." Oh yeah, sure.
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Ffs, another one that thinks anything but their own noise is 'wumming' . You wum yourself mate, no need for anyone to help. Frustrated perhaps that no one can be arsed fighting with you about 'brexit' in its own thread you seem to need to hijack this one - 'wumming' even, to try to create online the enemy in your head. We get it Vic. Brexit' is a bit shit and you always thought so. Is it too much to ask that you contain your feelings within the EU thread and let this be about the current Labour leader?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Ffs, another one that thinks anything but their own noise is 'wumming' . You wum yourself mate, no need for anyone to help. Frustrated perhaps that no one can be arsed fighting with you about 'brexit' in its own thread you seem to need to hijack this one - 'wumming' even, to try to create online the enemy in your head. We get it Vic. Brexit' is a bit shit and you always thought so. Is it too much to ask that you contain your feelings within the EU thread and let this be about the current Labour leader?
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Not anything, just you.

What better way to be a wum than keep replying to stuff that would otherwise run out of steam.

The issue raised (not by me) was why Starmer doesn't publicly blame Brexit for the problems of Brexit.

Those problems are only just beginning.
 
Vic said:
Not anything, just you.

What better way to be a wum than keep replying to stuff that would otherwise run out of steam.

The issue raised (not by me) was why Starmer doesn't publicly blame Brexit for the problems of Brexit.

Those problems are only just beginning.
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Quite
 
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