Keir Starmer

[mat]

Would those people rather see Johnson win another election because that’s what’s going to happen unless the party unites behind Starmer. Their man, Corbyn, has failed. It’s time to give his successor some proper backing rather than sniping from the sidelines.

I agree Corbyn is the past. Starmer isn't endearing himself to members. Various CLPs have been suspended because they've asked questions about his leadership.

He's trying to put the power back to the PLP and wants the members to tick off whatever policy Mandleson has decided is needed.


Inside the party he's acting like a blairite tribute act. Corbyn supporters are told to forget about him, yet the current leader still thinks Blair got it right and moving the party accordingly in that direction.

Meanwhile the most self centered government in living history is taking advantage of piss poor public opposition to them.

 

[west didsblue]

I agree Corbyn is the past. Starmer isn't endearing himself to members. Various CLPs have been suspended because they've asked questions about his leadership.

He's trying to put the power back to the PLP and wants the members to tick off whatever policy Mandleson has decided is needed.


Inside the party he's acting like a blairite tribute act. Corbyn supporters are told to forget about him, yet the current leader still thinks Blair got it right and moving the party accordingly in that direction.

Meanwhile the most self centered government in living history is taking advantage of piss poor public opposition to them.

Blair got something right by winning 3 elections. The opposition to Starmer sounds a lot like the opposition to Biden amongst progressives in the US. They need to bite their tongues whether their grievances are real or not, and rally round him because the alternative is busy destroying the country with its culture wars and incompetence.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I agree Corbyn is the past. Starmer isn't endearing himself to members. Various CLPs have been suspended because they've asked questions about his leadership.

He's trying to put the power back to the PLP and wants the members to tick off whatever policy Mandleson has decided is needed.


Inside the party he's acting like a blairite tribute act. Corbyn supporters are told to forget about him, yet the current leader still thinks Blair got it right and moving the party accordingly in that direction.

Meanwhile the most self centered government in living history is taking advantage of piss poor public opposition to them.

labour’s left need to shut the fuck up or get banished like the other loons did in the 80s. They had their chance and delivered us Brexit and a moron for a PM. This country is crying out for a moderate, intelligent, centrist government where the poor are looked after, public services funded and business and the economy driven to thrive to cover the above.

Funnily enough we had a government like that for 15 years.

 

[NJ Blue]

Serious question. What does Keir and Labour need to do to get this shambles out of government? Why are the Conservatives still polling higher than Labour after the complete shambles of the last 16 months? I’m not very political, I just want a government that cares about the people, services and the country.

 

[mat]

Serious question. What does Keir and Labour need to do to get this shambles out of government? Why are the Conservatives still polling higher than Labour after the complete shambles of the last 16 months? I’m not very political, I just want a government that cares about the people, services and the country.

Starmer currently has very little in policy. He already has a mountain to climb with a Tory friendly client journalists willing to attack when asked by the government.

He has a chance now with the expected freedom day fuck up to take the initiative and show calm, dull,but effective leadership. If he starts doing that he might even get some of his enemies within the party in line.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I agree Corbyn is the past. Starmer isn't endearing himself to members. Various CLPs have been suspended because they've asked questions about his leadership.

He's trying to put the power back to the PLP and wants the members to tick off whatever policy Mandleson has decided is needed.


Inside the party he's acting like a blairite tribute act. Corbyn supporters are told to forget about him, yet the current leader still thinks Blair got it right and moving the party accordingly in that direction.

Meanwhile the most self centered government in living history is taking advantage of piss poor public opposition to them.

This sums up what Starmer and his third way wankers are trying to pull off......Forget the party is fucked because I'm an establishment man and I'm fucking off the left, forget that Labour is hopelessly split, forget that I'm New Labour 2.0 and I stand for nothing, forget the lies I told to get elected.....

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

labour’s left need to shut the fuck up or get banished like the other loons did in the 80s. They had their chance and delivered us Brexit and a moron for a PM. This country is crying out for a moderate, intelligent, centrist government where the poor are looked after, public services funded and business and the economy driven to thrive to cover the above.

Funnily enough we had a government like that for 15 years.

Do you not think there is political space between Corbyn labour and new labour for some compromise?

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Serious question. What does Keir and Labour need to do to get this shambles out of government? Why are the Conservatives still polling higher than Labour after the complete shambles of the last 16 months? I’m not very political, I just want a government that cares about the people, services and the country.

The vaccine roll out dragged the conservative approval rating up, they are now managing to fuck things up with their mixed messaging, high profile ministers at it with their aides. If this opening up ends up with more restrictions in the future someone needs to be giving them a hammering which Starmer doesn’t seem to do. Burnham seems to have made more waves against this government (who should be there for the taking )than Starmer has during this pandemic and he’s not even an MP.

 

[The perfect fumble]

labour’s left need to shut the fuck up or get banished like the other loons did in the 80s. They had their chance and delivered us Brexit and a moron for a PM. This country is crying out for a moderate, intelligent, centrist government where the poor are looked after, public services funded and business and the economy driven to thrive to cover the above.

Funnily enough we had a government like that for 15 years.

You should read up on the Third Way and why it fails.

 

[bluejon]

Yeah but it boils down to one thing, if the UK was running on a socialist principal and had ensured a good trade relationship within europe with a goal to change the EU from a really wanj system that shits on most members

Then voting leave would have been the right choice unless you were a tory or liberal and self centerrd.

Leavijg the EU is only bad depending on the government at the time

I agree, and it is was my main argument for voting remain at the time. It wasn't out of some obscure adoration of the EU, it was primarily because if leave won it was going to be a tory brexit, and most likely a Boris Johnson brexit and we can now see first hand what a gigantic mess that is.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

You should read up on the Third Way and why it fails.

It succeeded in providing the best and most unifying government in my lifetime.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

And what's left of it?

A memory of 15 years of good government which gave us a booming economy, improved public services, better healthcare for all, shorter waiting lists, more efficient and accountable education, more accessible higher education and better social cohesion.

Some of these things are still “left” actually but they are being eroded because they’ve been out of power for 20 years.

If you think far left wing politics are the answer to this mess then you have not been paying attention. They had a chance and ended up fucking it for the rest of us. The hard left are as responsible for Brexit and Johnson as anyone else through their folly and refusal to learn from the past. The electorate will NOT buy it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It succeeded in providing the best and most unifying government in my lifetime.

From 1997 to 2015 we effectively had this....

The Third Way.

It gave us Brexit, it gave us austerity, it gave us Corbyn, it gave us May, it gave us Johnson.

The Third Way is abdication politics, top down centre right mush that ruthlessly kettles real issues and real dividing lines until they can be kettled no longer and they break free! Hence Corbyn, hence Johnson, tearing up the joint with fractious us and them politics.

It is the illusion of middle of the road, it's not the middle of anything, it is a denial of political reality, a superficially attractive proposition which after time is exposed as establishment politics with a smile and a twist of neo-liberalism.

It fails, it always fails, what good it does evaporates and what it bequeaths is disastrous, it gave us all the above, in the States it gave them Trump.

 

[M18CTID]

Serious question. What does Keir and Labour need to do to get this shambles out of government? Why are the Conservatives still polling higher than Labour after the complete shambles of the last 16 months? I’m not very political, I just want a government that cares about the people, services and the country.

It’s difficult to explain why the Tories are still polling so well because even long-standing Tories I know don’t think this current government are much good. Perhaps it’s down to the millions of lifelong Labour voters who switched sides at the last GE and they need a lot more convincing to go back to Labour? With the pandemic dominating the landscape over the past 18 months, I suppose Starmer hasn’t had much chance to tackle the Tories on all the other issues, and while the govt has made plenty of mistakes regarding Covid decisions, many people feel Labour wouldn’t have done much better.
Of course, the reason why so many Labour voters switched to Conservative was down to Brexit. Johnson said he would deliver it, while Corbyn sat on the fence. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that at the previous election, Corbyn did far better as he had a definitive stance on delivering Brexit and nearly pulled off an unlikely win.
I think Starmer can win that support back over time now that Brexit has happened and there won’t be much else in the Tory locker to entice those voters at the next election. I know Johnson pledged to look after those voters but I’m not sure how much he can actually do for them. He can’t exactly create tens of thousands of new jobs out of thin air in some of the most deprived areas of the country.

 

[Vic]

From 1997 to 2015 we effectively had this....

The Third Way.

It gave us Brexit, it gave us austerity, it gave us Corbyn, it gave us May, it gave us Johnson.

The Third Way is abdication politics, top down centre right mush that ruthlessly kettles real issues and real dividing lines until they can be kettled no longer and they break free! Hence Corbyn, hence Johnson, tearing up the joint with fractious us and them politics.

It is the illusion of middle of the road, it's not the middle of anything, it is a denial of political reality, a superficially attractive proposition which after time is exposed as establishment politics with a smile and twist of neo-liberalism.

It fails, it always fails, what good it does evaporates and what it bequeaths is disastrous, it gave us all the above, in the States it gave them Trump.

Oh dear. Conflating New Labour and Tory (Libdem) austerity.

But damn that awful period of consensus politics for the revival of nationalistic fascism.

 

[west didsblue]

From 1997 to 2015 we effectively had this....

The Third Way.

It gave us Brexit, it gave us austerity, it gave us Corbyn, it gave us May, it gave us Johnson.

The Third Way is abdication politics, top down centre right mush that ruthlessly kettles real issues and real dividing lines until they can be kettled no longer and they break free! Hence Corbyn, hence Johnson, tearing up the joint with fractious us and them politics.

It is the illusion of middle of the road, it's not the middle of anything, it is a denial of political reality, a superficially attractive proposition which after time is exposed as establishment politics with a smile and twist of neo-liberalism.

It fails, it always fails, what good it does evaporates and what it bequeaths is disastrous, it gave us all the above, in the States it gave them Trump.

Conflating 1997-2010 Labour with 2010-15 Tory austerity is a bit of a stretch.

 

[west didsblue]

Oh dear. Conflating New Labour and Tory (Libdem) austerity.

But damn that awful period of consensus politics for the revival of nationalistic fascism.

Beat me to it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Conflating 1997-2010 Labour with 2010-15 Tory austerity is a bit of a stretch.

No it isn't, Cameron was the heir to Blair, there is next to nothing to distinguish between them, Brown was up for a bit of tinkering, but Blair/Cameron/Osborne? Peas in a pod.

You're looking at The Third Way, right there, don't kid yourself otherwise.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Oh dear. Conflating New Labour and Tory (Libdem) austerity.

But damn that awful period of consensus politics for the revival of nationalistic fascism.

So what's your take? That spontaneously we all went mad?

 

[NJ Blue]

It’s difficult to explain why the Tories are still polling so well because even long-standing Tories I know don’t think this current government are much good. Perhaps it’s down to the millions of lifelong Labour voters who switched sides at the last GE and they need a lot more convincing to go back to Labour? With the pandemic dominating the landscape over the past 18 months, I suppose Starmer hasn’t had much chance to tackle the Tories on all the other issues, and while the govt has made plenty of mistakes regarding Covid decisions, many people feel Labour wouldn’t have done much better.
Of course, the reason why so many Labour voters switched to Conservative was down to Brexit. Johnson said he would deliver it, while Corbyn sat on the fence. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that at the previous election, Corbyn did far better as he had a definitive stance on delivering Brexit and nearly pulled off an unlikely win.
I think Starmer can win that support back over time now that Brexit has happened and there won’t be much else in the Tory locker to entice those voters at the next election. I know Johnson pledged to look after those voters but I’m not sure how much he can actually do for them. He can’t exactly create tens of thousands of new jobs out of thin air in some of the most deprived areas of the country.

Thanks for the replies. Jeremy Corbyn was completely unelectable, so the only real choice was Boris. Brexit may now be done, so I’d expect to see the polls favouring Labour after the disastrous last 18 months we have all been through. I agree that another party may not have done any better, but I don’t think that they could have done any worse! It’s a big question that Keir and Labour need to address in the next couple of years to get the electorate back on side.