Liverpool thread 2019/20

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Leicester

I think the difference is that we haven’t been outplayed by anyone this season whereas you have despite us having fewer points. Of course statistics mean nothing in the short term but over a long time they should bear fruit. We had enough chances to beat Spurs and Norwich comfortably without giving them goals, whereas Chelsea really deserved that game or a minimum a point. Whether it is fatigue for you guys i’m not sure but it is encouraging as it is frustrating when we toss points away with cock ups against Norwich
 
Leaving aside questions over other clubs owners, I'm not sure how you can argue that Liverpool's are bad owners. Financial guys who want to maximise value of their investment, fair enough, but under their ownership we've seen increases in stadium capacity (with more planned), greatly increased revenues and reduced debt, and an obvious improvement in playing performance. Certainly they have so far proved the opposite of asset strippers.

I'm certainly not accusing them of asset stripping, and the same can be said for the others.

How on earth are they 'worse' than either of those?

Maybe I could have made it clearer, my post was in relation to 'spygate' and football as a whole. That said, their attitude to their own club is part of that and is still worth considering.

Some owners (eg Glazers) may be milking their club and be hated by their fans, but generally they don't seem to actively engage with any shenanigans unless the opportunity drops in their lap. Of course, there are others at the clubs who are more actively engaged judging by what little of what we know in relation to the PL and UEFA etc, but it doesn't appear to be part of the m.o.

I can't say the same for JW Henry. From the way the club was bought, to actively getting involved in spats with other clubs, the boasting about tricking Suarez into staying, the reaction to the Suarez 'racism' fiasco, the Sterling backstabbing, the way they've treated the locals in the ground extensions, the jibes on twitter... There are other things but you get the idea. He is actively involved in this kind of thing, with (I'll admit, my interpretation) a kind of corporate cocky bullshit attitude.

The obvious counter is 'look what they've done for the club', and what is being suggested raises them above the others. Fair point, but again it's down to interpretation so let's explore just one avenue. Have they increased capacity because it's the in the long term best interests of the club, or to maximise the profits they can take? The lack of season tickets implies it's not for the fans. And why ditch all those plans to build a new stadium? Because it would cost too much? I'm not convinced when compared to everybody else's plans. It definitely smells of optimum r.o.i. from the owners viewpoint.

I'm certainly not suggesting they are so much worse overall than so many other owners (and some we've had!) but they are, to my mind insidious in a way the others are not.

I've no axe to grind, I'm not a Liverpool hater, but as time has gone by I've seen the way he acts and come to the conclusion he's worse than the others. Whether United or Arsenal fans agree is another thing!

Edit: Meant to put something about how much would they have spent (and on what) without the Suarez/Coutinho money, but forgot. Ah well...
 
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I'm certainly not accusing them of asset stripping, and the same can be said for the others.



Maybe I could have made it clearer, my post was in relation to 'spygate' and football as a whole. That said, their attitude to their own club is part of that and is still worth considering.

Some owners (eg Glazers) may be milking their club and be hated by their fans, but generally they don't seem to actively engage with any shenanigans unless the opportunity drops in their lap. Of course, there are others at the clubs who are more actively engaged judging by what little of what we know in relation to the PL and UEFA etc, but it doesn't appear to be part of the m.o.

I can't say the same for JW Henry. From the way the club was bought, to actively getting involved in spats with other clubs, the boasting about tricking Suarez into staying, the reaction to the Suarez 'racism' fiasco, the Sterling backstabbing, the way they've treated the locals in the ground extensions, the jibes on twitter... There are other things but you get the idea. He is actively involved in this kind of thing, with (I'll admit, my interpretation) a kind of corporate cocky bullshit attitude.

The obvious counter is 'look what they've done for the club', and what is being suggested raises them above the others. Fair point, but again it's down to interpretation so let's explore just one avenue. Have they increased capacity because it's the in the long term best interests of the club, or to maximise the profits they can take? The lack of season tickets implies it's not for the fans. And why ditch all those plans to build a new stadium? Because it would cost too much? I'm not convinced when compared to everybody else's plans. It definitely smells of optimum r.o.i. from the owners viewpoint.

I'm certainly not suggesting they are so much worse overall than so many other owners (and some we've had!) but they are, to my mind insidious in a way the others are not.

I've no axe to grind, I'm not a Liverpool hater, but as time has gone by I've seen the way he acts and come to the conclusion he's worse than the others. Whether United or Arsenal fans agree is another thing!
Wanting to maximise revenue and wanting what's best for the club aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I would say that the Glazers are the most malign owners in football, by a county mile; apart from possibly Owen Oysten. To me, they represent, much moreso than Henry, the apotheosis of that most unpleasant and avaricious of creatures, the American billionaire.
 
He's a great example as one or two bad games should not detract from some excellent performances, and him quite rightly being praised for being an asset in the middle of the park.

Again, Keita hasn't played enough games for anyone to have a realistic shot at assessing how good he is, and I'm not sure, with his red card issues at Leipzig, that he could realistically be called a coward.

I'm sure we can both thank our lucky stars that teams we've played over the last couple of seasons didn't have their shooting boots on, and conversely, you must have been made up that Kompany dusted the cobwebs off his own shooting boots against Everton last season. That's how close the run in was.
Quite the contrary, that backs up my point.
 
He's a great example as one or two bad games should not detract from some excellent performances, and him quite rightly being praised for being an asset in the middle of the park.

Again, Keita hasn't played enough games for anyone to have a realistic shot at assessing how good he is, and I'm not sure, with his red card issues at Leipzig, that he could realistically be called a coward.

I'm sure we can both thank our lucky stars that teams we've played over the last couple of seasons didn't have their shooting boots on, and conversely, you must have been made up that Kompany dusted the cobwebs off his own shooting boots against Everton last season. That's how close the run in was.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

It was close only in your fans' minds.
- We had no instances of goalies throwing balls into our net. You had four. That's 8 points right there.
- You also drew a match you should have lost to West Ham when Milner was 2 yards offside.
- Won vs Spurs after an insane no-penalty call in stoppage time when Son was kicked and up-ended
- Wolves then got a blatant handball goal against us.

So we are up to a 13 point swing before even getting to Salah's olympic-esque antics and your various offside/illegal goals (Bournemouth, Southampton, Wolves, Fulham to name a few off the top of my head).

Also interesting how you mention Kompany vs Leicester (not Everton) but casually ignore Sturridge's against Chelsea when he wasn't even on the pitch for more than 10 minutes outside of that. We also had Townsend score a goal that he will never replicate in his lifetime, even playing against his kids in the local park.
 
Leicester

I think the difference is that we haven’t been outplayed by anyone this season whereas you have despite us having fewer points. Of course statistics mean nothing in the short term but over a long time they should bear fruit. We had enough chances to beat Spurs and Norwich comfortably without giving them goals, whereas Chelsea really deserved that game or a minimum a point. Whether it is fatigue for you guys i’m not sure but it is encouraging as it is frustrating when we toss points away with cock ups against Norwich

Also robbed by a VAR non-call on Rodri in the Spurs game.
 
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