Madeleine McCann

Stoned Rose said:
Finished watching this tonight.

Before I give my two penn’orth what’s BM’s view re the cadaver dogs / blood / corpse in the cupboard bit of the evidence?
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The first thing is what the dog handler said - the positive indications given by the dogs are not enough to make a case but must be used in conjunction with other supporting evidence, the dogs give a possible lead or further areas of enquires (or words to that effect).

For the cadaver dog - I asked the other night if Kate may have issued any death certificates at some point whilst working as a GP prior to the holiday. If she had she could’ve still hand the scent of dead bodies on her, remember the dog handler uses an example where the dogs had given an positive indication in a 40 year time frame relating to a cadaver when he spoke of a body which had been placed in a shallow grave and exhumed some time later and the body had been moved.

If the dogs can work in such a timeframe (I don’t know if they can) and Kate had been around any dead bodies it would also explain why the same dogs picked her clothes out when they had the McCanns clothing on the floor (the dogs didn’t pick Gerry’s clothes out). It could also explain the car, the dog signalled near one of the front doors and in the boot. The front door, whether driver or passenger would’ve had Kate behind it at some point as either the driver or passenger.

The boot could possibly be from Cuddle Cat who Kate carried with her throughout, maybe this had been placed in the boot at some time?

For this theory to work (and it’s the only plausible one I can come up with) Kate would’ve had to have issued some death certificates and the dogs would have to be able to detect the scent long after the contact was made?

The issue regardless of the dogs would still be the car wasn’t hired until 25 days after she’d disappeared.

The blood dog - the handler stated the dog could only indicate blood, it couldn’t say who’s blood or when the blood appeared. Far too many people have stayed in that apartment previously to not say a possible nose bleed, blood from a cut, menstrual blood could’ve quite easily been present.

Again the issue would still be the car which wasn’t hired until 25 days after she’d disappeared, where did they put the body until they got the car to move it (a small body of that size would’ve decomposed rapidly in a hot country) with police, public and reporters all over the place 24 hours a day?

And the silver bullet for both would be the DNA samples that were taken from both scenes where the dogs indicated were returned to rule out any link to Madeline. Had the samples confirmed Maddie’s DNA then the dogs evidence would’ve been accepted with the DNA.
 
Machiavelli said:
It’s ‘moot’ point ;)
Somebody has access to their accounts as folk have been posting them in this very thread today.

Somebody would be advising them which route to go down in the first instance as they wouldn’t have had a clue of charity vs PLC.
I tend not to get drawn into the fund as it’s pointless with regard to the Madeline mystery.

I also own a decent sized business and I have been shown by many accountants over the years how to “play the game” to minimise my tax liabilities and to maximise my income. I genuinely believe if more people knew the mechanisms of acceptable business practices they wouldn’t be that bothered about the administration of the fund as lots of businesses behave in the same way, the only issue for me if folk want to cry foul could be why not a charity like you’ve said. I don’t think we will ever know so it’s wasted energy imo.
Maybe we should let UEFA take a look into their accounts. ;)
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I've worked as an engineering contractor for 20+ years via a Ltd Co, so understand that side of things well enough but not the advantages of charity vs Ltd Co with respect to the McCanns situation.

I'm of the opinion the fund side of things is a relevant part of the overall McCann story.

When i originally looked at the McCann stuff a few years back, i looked into who were main detractors of the McCanns, or running what could be considered 'anti-McCann' forums or similar.
You had people like Tony Bennett (he set up a 'Madeline' fund to bring a private prosecution against the McCanns for negligence, and had done something similar for Barrymore & the Lubock case)
But a large number of others had once been the McCanns biggest supporters and had raised thousands through fund raising etc. Lots were still raising money to find Madeline just not directing it towards the official McCann fund. Views & feelings of those involved varied, from the McCanns were negligent while their daughter was alive, and also after her disappearance due to surrounding themselves or employing the likes Clarence Mitchell, Kennedy, the various PI firms etc.
Others felt the funds were getting mis-managed etc and the McCanns weren't doing enough to find their daughter.

Over time the McCann story has grown to more than just an unsolved missing child mystery, and to fully understand people's attitudes, views & feelings on it you need to look it all, from all the main players involved, the media etc through to the funds etc.
 
I’ve been thinking about the Calpol theory where she’s been doped, wakes up disoriented and bangs her head and dies before Kate arrives and panics. Where would Kate put the body? The apartment would soon be flooded with the rest of the tapas 7 and the police.
 
Ghandi's Flip Flops said:
I've worked as an engineering contractor for 20+ years via a Ltd Co, so understand that side of things well enough but not the advantages of charity vs Ltd Co with respect to the McCanns situation.

I'm of the opinion the fund side of things is a relevant part of the overall McCann story.

When i originally looked at the McCann stuff a few years back, i looked into who were main detractors of the McCanns, or running what could be considered 'anti-McCann' forums or similar.
You had people like Tony Bennett (he set up a 'Madeline' fund to bring a private prosecution against the McCanns for negligence, and had done something similar for Barrymore & the Lubock case)
But a large number of others had once been the McCanns biggest supporters and had raised thousands through fund raising etc. Lots were still raising money to find Madeline just not directing it towards the official McCann fund. Views & feelings of those involved varied, from the McCanns were negligent while their daughter was alive, and also after her disappearance due to surrounding themselves or employing the likes Clarence Mitchell, Kennedy, the various PI firms etc.
Others felt the funds were getting mis-managed etc and the McCanns weren't doing enough to find their daughter.

Over time the McCann story has grown to more than just an unsolved missing child mystery, and to fully understand people's attitudes, views & feelings on it you need to look it all, from all the main players involved, the media etc through to the funds etc.
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It just doesn’t interest me at all.
I’m interested in what happened to Madeline and who done whatever it is that happened to her. The fund came afterwards and what has happened with it since won’t shed one bit of light on the missing child case. Unless you think her disappearance was an elaborate trick to enable the setting up of the fund to get rich quick?
 
Machiavelli said:
I’ve been thinking about the Calpol theory where she’s been doped, wakes up disoriented and bangs her head and dies before Kate arrives and panics. Where would Kate put the body? The apartment would soon be flooded with the rest of the tapas 7 and the police.
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If you are starting to look possible theories it's a massive rabbit hole that was done to death on the various 'find madeline' forums years back. probably seen most of them and nothing particularly new over the last few years, only re-hashed stuff mainly in tin-foil hat territory

The pedo ring stuff was done, plus the McCanns & tapas 7 being part of pedo ring. Even seen Margaret Hodge MP dragged into various conspiracies.

Then you've got things like Madeline died days earlier, based on a theory that all the creche records were forged because they were signed as K. McCann rather than K. Healey (which she was still known as, and even signed her police statements as such).

Also throw in secret meetings between Gerry & Murat at a golf club way outside the resort days before the event, based on their phones pinging the same cell tower at the same time etc.

Then there's the ransom gone wrong theories, stemming from the McCanns deleted call lists and 14 text messages from an unknown number (in Swansea i think) that Gerry received the day before she disappeared (and 4 texts the day after from the same number)

Also why couldn't the McCanns provide DNA samples of Madeline from her stuff in their apartment, leaving Gerry having to fly home to get samples from their house in the UK.

Even good old Gordon Brown gets in on the act, because he flew out to Portugal, when it should have been under the remit of Milliband as Foreign Minister.
 
Ghandi's Flip Flops said:
If you are starting to look possible theories it's a massive rabbit hole that was done to death on the various 'find madeline' forums years back. probably seen most of them and nothing particularly new over the last few years, only re-hashed stuff mainly in tin-foil hat territory

The pedo ring stuff was done, plus the McCanns & tapas 7 being part of pedo ring. Even seen Margaret Hodge MP dragged into various conspiracies.

Then you've got things like Madeline died days earlier, based on a theory that all the creche records were forged because they were signed as K. McCann rather than K. Healey (which she was still known as, and even signed her police statements as such).

Also throw in secret meetings between Gerry & Murat at a golf club way outside the resort days before the event, based on their phones pinging the same cell tower at the same time etc.

Then there's the ransom gone wrong theories, stemming from the McCanns deleted call lists and 14 text messages from an unknown number (in Swansea i think) that Gerry received the day before she disappeared (and 4 texts the day after from the same number)

Also why couldn't the McCanns provide DNA samples of Madeline from her stuff in their apartment, leaving Gerry having to fly home to get samples from their house in the UK.

Even good old Gordon Brown gets in on the act, because he flew out to Portugal, when it should have been under the remit of Milliband as Foreign Minister.
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I’ve seen most of those theories over the years. I think people who staunchly think the McCanns killed her peddle most of these tbh and they present multiple theories simultaneously which can’t all be right.
Going back to the Calpol/accident cover up theory, I was wondering if that had happened Kate could’ve made up the story about Maddie crying the night before which plants the seed she was still alive the night before. I think it is an odd story considering what I’ve argued about damage limitation and public perception.
Do you know the last confirmed sighting of Maddie by someone other than the McCanns?
 
Machiavelli said:
I’ve seen most of those theories over the years. I think people who staunchly think the McCanns killed her peddle most of these tbh and they present multiple theories simultaneously which can’t all be right.
Going back to the Calpol/accident cover up theory, I was wondering if that had happened Kate could’ve made up the story about Maddie crying the night before which plants the seed she was still alive the night before. I think it is an odd story considering what I’ve argued about damage limitation and public perception.
Do you know the last confirmed sighting of Maddie by someone other than the McCanns?
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Nah, from memory the crying the night before story originated from the old dear who lived in the apartment above the McCanns
 
Ghandi's Flip Flops said:
Nah, from memory the crying the night before story originated from the old dear who lived in the apartment above the McCanns
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That rules that theory out then unless she actually heard the twins or the McCanns were killing Maddie and that’s what she heard? It doesn’t rule the Calpol out, it just means Maddie was probably alive the night before.

Edit
She says it wasn’t babies crying.
 
Machiavelli said:
Do you know the last confirmed sighting of Maddie by someone other than the McCanns?
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Confirmed in what way?

Oldfield supposedly did the 9.30 visit but in his statement he actually says he could see the twins but didn't actually physically look at Maddy, but assumed she was there and okay because it was quiet.

Prior to that it was the supposed visit by David Payne to the apartment between 5pm & 6.30pm, but there's that many holes & inconsistancies between his & Kate's versions of events it's likely bullshit.
i.e. his original statement said visit was 5pm, which later got changed 6-6.30pm because it didn't fit with Gerry & Kate's timeline of events.
Other things like she said she had to get out the shower when he knocked on the patio door, and came out of the bathroom in just a towel. Funnily in another of her police statements she said when Gerry arrived back at 7.30ish they chilled with a glass of wine and she also had a bath (so shower + bath within 1.5hr timeslot)
He said he walked into the apartment without knocking and she was sat playing with the kids etc

Watch the vid from about 7mins in.
His later stuff is proper tinfoil hat stuff but the stuff about the Payne visit is pretty spot on and can be fact checked back against the original case file statements etc.
 
Ghandi's Flip Flops said:
Confirmed in what way?

Oldfield supposedly did the 9.30 visit but in his statement he actually says he could see the twins but didn't actually physically look at Maddy, but assumed she was there and okay because it was quiet.

Prior to that it was the supposed visit by David Payne to the apartment between 5pm & 6.30pm, but there's that many holes & inconsistancies between his & Kate's versions of events it's likely bullshit.
i.e. his original statement said visit was 5pm, which later got changed 6-6.30pm because it didn't fit with Gerry & Kate's timeline of events.
Other things like she said she had to get out the shower when he knocked on the patio door, and came out of the bathroom in just a towel. Funnily in another of her police statements she said when Gerry arrived back at 7.30ish they chilled with a glass of wine and she also had a bath (so shower + bath within 1.5hr timeslot)
He said he walked into the apartment without knocking and she was sat playing with the kids etc

Watch the vid from about 7mins in.
His later stuff is proper tinfoil hat stuff but the stuff about the Payne visit is pretty spot on and can be fact checked back against the original case file statements etc.
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Yeah I think he says a lot of stuff in a short space of time in the 10 mins I’ve just watched. It would take weeks to fact check everything he’s saying.
 
Machiavelli said:
I thought you might have a signed copy haha.
Are you about over the weekend? I might need to bounce a few things off you.
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No.1 daughter's 18th tomorrow so got family here on & off all day long. might get on here & there or maybe late on.
Sunday, the mrs is working so will be looking after no.3 daughter most of the day
 
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