Mancini's future

[BobKowalski]

Just a word of caution. Some time ago a bloke called Berbatov refused to play for Tottenham. A few weeks later, his manager (Martin Jol) was sacked. The same thing happened to a Newcastle player (whose name escapes me) and a few weeks later Sir Bobby Robson was dismissed. We all hope the same thing doesn't happen here as quite frankly there are few decent managers around. Arsene Wenger anyone?

^^^ I think in the rush to lynch Tevez, the issue of Mancini's management style has been overlooked.

A thorough investigation of "Tevez-gate" will look not just at the events in the dugout on Tuesday night, but the treatment of Tevez in the run-up to that fixture + possibly Mancini's handling of other players if it is deemed relevant.

Certainly Tevez's advisors will be assembling a case that he was not being treated fairly compared to other players.

Although, I expect the internal review to come down firmly on the side of Mancini...I would not be surprised if there were one or two "clear the air" observations that will enable a few players to get things off their chest in relation to RM's management style.

There was no cover-up over the Cook e-mail episode and I expect the same thing will happen here.
RM has to be seen to win this battle with Tevez, but whether the review will deliver the "carte blanche" vote of confidence he seeks that strengthens his position within the club is another matter.

Of course all aspects of the affair will be looked at but as for being 'treated fairly' well for one it is subjective and by 'treated fairly' you really mean 'preferential treatment' which is what this is really about. Tevez used to get it and now he doesn't. But lets examine Tevez and if he is being treated fairly under the circumstances.

Firstly he expressed his wish (again) to leave therefore going forward and building a team round a player who doesn't actually want to play for you and will leave at the earliest available opportunity would be rank stupidity.

Then you have the issue of being fit to play and when selected to play did you make the most of that opportunity? Again in both instances Tevez is not on strong ground. In fact his argument seems to be more 'I was the top goalscorer last year so I should play by right'. Well what you did last year counts for little - ask Berbatov.

The poster boy for the right way to behave is Balotelli (oh the irony) Benched because of the backheel and poor showing in the Community shield and kept out of the side by the strong performances of other players. His reaction was to train hard, keep his mouth shut and show his worth when called upon. As Mancini said Mario deserved to come on against Everton and made the most of his opportunity. Its almost text book management.

That players have issues with the manager is undoubedly the case just as some Madrid players are having issues with Mourinho or Nani getting banished to the wilderness for several months after having a pop at taggart a while back or Hutton slagging off good old 'arry for 'freezing out players and not talking to them' (sound familiar?).

For some reason we seem to think that 'man management issues' only occur at City or with Mancini. They don't. Football is awash with player/manager strops so lets stop pretending that somehow Mancini is unique here.

 

[Scooby Blue]

Just a word of caution. Some time ago a bloke called Berbatov refused to play for Tottenham. A few weeks later, his manager (Martin Jol) was sacked. The same thing happened to a Newcastle player (whose name escapes me) and a few weeks later Sir Bobby Robson was dismissed. We all hope the same thing doesn't happen here as quite frankly there are few decent managers around. Arsene Wenger anyone?

^^^ I think in the rush to lynch Tevez, the issue of Mancini's management style has been overlooked.

A thorough investigation of "Tevez-gate" will look not just at the events in the dugout on Tuesday night, but the treatment of Tevez in the run-up to that fixture + possibly Mancini's handling of other players if it is deemed relevant.

Certainly Tevez's advisors will be assembling a case that he was not being treated fairly compared to other players.

Although, I expect the internal review to come down firmly on the side of Mancini...I would not be surprised if there were one or two "clear the air" observations that will enable a few players to get things off their chest in relation to RM's management style.

There was no cover-up over the Cook e-mail episode and I expect the same thing will happen here.
RM has to be seen to win this battle with Tevez, but whether the review will deliver the "carte blanche" vote of confidence he seeks that strengthens his position within the club is another matter.

How do you know that there are any problems with Mancinis manegement style?

I think any attempt by Tevez and his advisres to pretend that the twat has been treated unfairly by Mancini will only result in them being laughed out of the room.

If City are serious about getting heavy legally (as Tolmie + other sources are suggesting)then this will get as ugly + bitter as any divorce proceeding you can imagine.

It is naive to think that any + every bit of dirty washing they can get their hands on from City's recent history won't be produced as evidence.
Example (1): Difference in treatment of Bellamy / Robinho / Adebayor vs Tevez.
Were all disaffected players being handled the same way ?

Example (2): Difference in treatment of substitutes. (Very relevant to what happened on Tuesday night). Were other players allowed to come on as sub after only one initial warm-up and so RM was being inconsistent in insisting that Tevez did 2nd warm up? This is the level of pettiness that we will reach if we go down the legal route of terminating contracts etc.

 

[BlueRockape]

Lets face it we have been trying to get rid of the trouble making **** since the first transfer request.
Job done thanks Carlos

 

[waspish]

Mancini's future?

He'll go down as our best manager ever

 

[bluefandk]

^^^ I think in the rush to lynch Tevez, the issue of Mancini's management style has been overlooked.

A thorough investigation of "Tevez-gate" will look not just at the events in the dugout on Tuesday night, but the treatment of Tevez in the run-up to that fixture + possibly Mancini's handling of other players if it is deemed relevant.

Certainly Tevez's advisors will be assembling a case that he was not being treated fairly compared to other players.

Although, I expect the internal review to come down firmly on the side of Mancini...I would not be surprised if there were one or two "clear the air" observations that will enable a few players to get things off their chest in relation to RM's management style.

There was no cover-up over the Cook e-mail episode and I expect the same thing will happen here.
RM has to be seen to win this battle with Tevez, but whether the review will deliver the "carte blanche" vote of confidence he seeks that strengthens his position within the club is another matter.

How do you know that there are any problems with Mancinis manegement style?

I think any attempt by Tevez and his advisres to pretend that the twat has been treated unfairly by Mancini will only result in them being laughed out of the room.

If City are serious about getting heavy legally (as Tolmie + other sources are suggesting)then this will get as ugly + bitter as any divorce proceeding you can imagine.

It is naive to think that any + every bit of dirty washing they can get their hands on from City's recent history won't be produced as evidence.
Example (1): Difference in treatment of Bellamy / Robinho / Adebayor vs Tevez.
Were all disaffected players being handled the same way ?

Example (2): Difference in treatment of substitutes. (Very relevant to what happened on Tuesday night). Were other players allowed to come on as sub after only one initial warm-up and so RM was being inconsistent in insisting that Tevez did 2nd warm up? This is the level of pettiness that we will reach if we go down the legal route of terminating contracts etc.

What the hell are you on about?

The twat refused to play there can be no justification for that, are you really suggesting that any court would find that Tevez can justify his actions by pretending he has been hard done by?

The club has been bending over backwards to accomodate him ever since he handed in his transfer request.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You could not be further from the truth about SWP being frozen out. He simply ws not picked often as he isn't very good. Mancini has been nothing but complementary about SWP the person. The same with Bridge. They just aren't good enough.

Onuoha, like many that have had problems thought Mancini was gone after 6 months and acted foolishly.

You make me laugh. What does the manager have to do to get your support?

I do support him. I support him 100% over Tevez as I've said already. Where have I said I don't? That's a very lazy and simplistic post of yours as well as twisting facts to suit your agenda.

Bridge was identified as one of the group of players who went to see Cook to demand Mancini's sacking early in his tenure. That's a fact whether you like it or not and he's been on shit street since then. You mean early days as in the day Hughes was sacked? So not a problem with Mancini just a problem with the way Hughes was sacked

I accept there probably wasn't a personal problem between SWP & Mancini (so why type anything else about SWP then. There was no issue) but his dad was causing problems and there was friction between Wright and the club (as proven by the Onuoha email incident) and they clearly were fed up of it and weren't going to offer SWP a new contract. I've been one of the most critical of SWP's abilities and said as much in an earlier post so I think it's a bit of both with SWP. Not quite good enough plus troublemaking father.

Bellamy's just an awkward sod (Again, you could have stopped that debate there and then) but a good player and he was a victim of the "my way or the highway" approach of Mancini. They fell out over training and that's another well-established fact. Onuoha was daft to make public comments about Mancini on TV and was frozen out after that( so once again, not really Mancini's fault. Onuoha gamblem Bobby was going and lost the bet). Interestingly it took a refusal to play for him to finally freeze out Tevez and Balotelli has had a few chances after potentially blowing it. So it clearly helps if you're a decent player in his eyes. Nothing wrong with that

We know that he doesn't have a lot of interaction with players. I thought not personally telling players that they were out and texting them to train with the youngsters was piss poor on RM's part. He should have had the guts to tell them where they stood face-to-face but he doesn't apparently talk much to players off the training ground. That's not the way I'd do it if I wanted the respect of my players but he's the manager so it's his choice and he'll stand or fall by that.

The thing that made Malcolm Allison a great coach was that he knew how to deal with each player as an individual. Some like Neil Young were often short of confidence and needed an arm round the shoulder to gee them up. Mike Summerbee needed to be riled to get a positive reaction so Mal would be aggressive and confrontational. Colin Bell needed very little interaction from him.

Baconface is a ruthless manager but equally knows when to be supportive of players having problems. And that's how he gets the best out of them.

Mancini like me, you and everyone, has strengths and weaknesses and people pointing out what they believe are weaknesses on a message board where we express opinions are not undermining him. Being blind to potential weaknesses may suit you but it's not my style. I get well paid for looking at problems from all angles and challenging people who I think are wrong. His strengths may well see us very successful but his weaknesses could see us fail and him out of a job. Like quite a few others on here I see players who don't appear to give their all more often than I'd like and can't seem to rouse themselves to come back from being a goal down. That's worth questioning in my eyes.

But I'll be at Ewood Park on Saturday giving the team and Mancini my full support. However once the whistle blows for full-time then I'll continue questioning anything I see as wrong.

The last two paragraphs are fair enough.

LOL. we're getting somewhere then if there's two paragraphs of mine you agree with.

I think the point is that Mancini has, up to a point, the luxury in his management career of being able to ship out players who don't fully match his vision and get others in. If he was managing in League 2, he'd be stuck with what he had and would have to make the most of it.

But even at this level you sometimes have to work with players who perhaps aren't your ideal, at least until you've been in the job a few years like Wenger or Moyes. I'd also say, in Mancini's defence, that the players should just knuckle down and get on with it instead of mouthing off. Two people may not like each other but there's nothing to stop them having respect for each other.

But if a majority of the players don't respect the manager then whatever we may say about the manager being the boss, then there's only one pragmatic outcome.

If you're old enough to remember Ron Saunders, he was perhaps the best example of that. He wasn't respected by the City players and was forced out but then went on to build a title and European Cup winning side at Villa. Who was right and who was wrong in that one? After nearly 40 years I'm still not sure.

 

[CaptainCarlos]

Might not be anything but could also mean something.. However

On the OS right below "Ticket on Sale" mid left on the screen. The "Join us on facebook" used to have a picture of Carlos.. Throughout the summer it did.. Even when he was moaning about Argentina, Family and Manchester.

Now it is no more.. They replaced it with Hart, Silva & Yaya.

As I said.. Might be somin or might be nothing.. But one thing is for sure though unlike Tevez Mancinis future is certain and for the foreseeable future it is blue!

 

[persvenality cult]

Just a word of caution. Some time ago a bloke called Berbatov refused to play for Tottenham. A few weeks later, his manager (Martin Jol) was sacked. The same thing happened to a Newcastle player (whose name escapes me) and a few weeks later Sir Bobby Robson was dismissed. We all hope the same thing doesn't happen here as quite frankly there are few decent managers around. Arsene Wenger anyone?

It's not about the dearth of replacements, is it.

It's about Tottenham and Newcastle's 'trajectory' following those decisions.

Berbatov, of course, fucked off Tottenham 12 months later. In the mean time, Ramos was hired and then (in my mind) went on strike because Commoli royally fucked him over by selling six good players, including Keane, then delaying Berbatov's inevitable departure until there was no time to seek replacement forwards. Then Commoli was the one who lost his job, because Redknapp made it a condition of his employment, feeling he could work with that level of interference, and anyway the guy is a dick who spent endless amounts on pet projects like Bentley, Dos Santos, and is now bringing the same keen eye for a bargain to his dealings at Liverpool.

Looking at who they signed, who Redknapp got rid of, who he still can't get rid of, the contracts paid off, those 14 months cost the club well over 80m, with other contracts still dragging them down to this day. And they are back exactly where they started, despite a couple of fairly heroic seasons.

And Newcastle were a borderline CL club when they sacked Robson, having finished third and fifth. Immediately afterwards, they broke their transfer record to sign Michael Owen, a snip at 16m for 70 appearances over four years. Over the next seven years, they have had eight managers, been relegated, sold once, unsuccesfully marketed a few times. They've never even been close to fifth.

 

[Longsight-memories]

Agree its not all black & white... well it is if your from Newcastle..
due to the Tevez row Bobby has got away with the criticism of the game..
Kolo for lescott Milner (imho) should have been on instead of Nasiri... to try and play gungho against a top team shows a lack of respect.. for Bayern..
Then he is complaining about playing 3 games a week & then he plays more of less the same team as v Everton?? Strange..
Most teams the manager has a chat with the player going on so the player knows what the plan is..not Bobby
Tevez Bellamy,Ady Milner,Barry,Ireland, all have had run ins with him are we saying they are all bad eggs?
Ps
Tevez was out of order.. but there are question marks over how it all started
Manchini needs to look at himself and sort out his man management skills..

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I fully support Mancini after having doubts when he first came but I do believe there are two areas in particualr that he needs to work on.

The first is that he needs to look at the way he deals with the media. He should have answered the questions put to him more diplomatically after the game rather than losing his cool and ranting on about Tevez and Dzeko. A simple "I would rather not comment on those matters at the moment and we will deal with them when we get back to Manchester" would have been better. It would have bought breathing space and would have allowed the club spin doctors to get together, come up with a story and not damage the club as much. Ie damage limitation.

We will lose shit loads on Tevez now and with hindsight we should have put him up for sale with a £25m price tag not the £50m one that we wanted. There would have been more takers at that level.

He also needs to look at one glaring problem that we have had since he took over and that is our complete inability to get back into games where we go behind. People on here were questionning the substitutions at 55 minutes ie De Jong for Dzeko. I dont think it would have mattered who he had put on.

When we go behind we rarely win and mostly lose. This needs to change if we are to continue to be succesful. The last time I can remember us coming from two goals down was at Blackburn under Hughes. Top sides have an ability to come back and get either a point or all three. Pressure builds and the last ten minutes leads to chances galore. Ok maybe not against quality like Bayern but at Fulham and in games agianst Everton, Birmingham, wolves and Villa last year this just does not seem to happen with us especially away from home.