Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[taconinja]

The point I was making was that the manager didn't need to hand out rollockings, as his senior players would do it without him getting involved. We could do with 3 or 4 Craig Bellamy's in the dressing room these days as he would let his teammates know what he thought without needing his manager to tell him.

Bloody hell PB you are advocating Craig Bellamy?
He was a cancer in the dressing room and in his own autobiography he admitted he screwed up.
I do hope we have moved on from the Bellamy's of this world.
Our current dressing room has plenty of leaders - Kompany, Hart, Zab, Toure etc but even they need to get their inspiration from somewhere and that's the problem. They are not getting it.
Hence the total lack of confidence and the breakdown in trust with the manager.

It's never Bellamy's fault, It's Rafa's fault, It's Souness fault, It's Gould's fault, it's Rise's fault, It's Robinho's fault, it's Elano's fault, it's Mancini' fault but never Craig's fault.

I think it's a matter of fan frustration. They see poor performances by players and the manager and feel frustrated, and then they identify with someone like Bellamy who wants to blame someone.

 

[taconinja]

Completely agree. There is far more at play and going on here apart from the manager.

Yeah me too and the constant in those season has been the players rather than the manager.

You can add me to the list but my concerns about player mentality have been aired often enough.

I think we are in a very difficult spot and by that I mean the whole club; however, it will likely be the manager that is first to pay the price.

TBH, I couldn't say what the problem is. I can speculate for myself and read what others think but I cannot come to a definitive conclusion. Someone at the club needs to identify the problem; make that problems: this will be an amalgam of things and devise some solutions.

I am not convinced that the (immediate) solution is to fire the manager but I do think that we need the next manager to have the stature that impresses the players - and whiny arsed supporters - before he walks through the door. That severely limits the candidates fit to takeover.

I said the other week that every game for City is a big game but I fail to see that our players get that and I am convinced that we need to make some significant changes to the playing staff and in our approach to recruitment. Since the debacle of the the close season following the "first" title win, our buying has left something to be desired - although even before it was not fully satisfying in my eyes - but we did do enough to produce another title win. The jury is still out on last summer but we did attempt to address some of the main weaknesses in the squad. We have not been helped by FFP but underlying that, the club's approach may have been to attempt better financial husbandry. However, you view the financial backdrop, questions can still be asked about how not insubstantial sums were spent. Those question need to be directed above the manager but also at the scouting network.

Although, I think we need to change several players, I think there has been much overreaction on here - about many things - and we need to remember that we had a squad capable of winning the title last season. I also think we have certain players that get far too much stick, players who certain supporters will just use any opportunity to bash. Nasri and Yaya being prime examples. Nasri has not been properly fit, due to an injury that required an operation, since early preseason so he needs time to see if he can recapture the form he showed before the nasty injury he go last season.

What needs to happen is that any bad apples are removed from the dressing room if in fact there are any and some of the weaker members of the squad need to be replaced with absolute top quality new players. A few choice signings could help to bring out the best of the rest. The recruitment also needs to take the squad towards the type of players best suited to how the club wants to play: I do think it is lacking in that regard and that in itself is has been a challenge for the manager to try and work around. I think he has tried to adapt to that but it is fair to ask if he has done enough in that regard? Ultimately his job is to get the best out of what he has at his disposal and that is not happening at this moment and he will be held accountable. I do think he merits more time to put things right. Having all his best players fit at the same time might help.

Great post and you sum it up perfectly.

 

[Damocles]

Mate, City were forced to continue paying the majority of the wages for both Adebayor and Bridge at other clubs, just to move them out.

Opinions on players are always subjective and both Nasri and Dzeko played big parts last season.

Mine was that those two don't have the right attitude or consistent application to be long-term beneficial.

City didn't pay a penny to Adebayor after he left. We took a reduction on the agreed price to let him move.

My point is, we sold them for cash and we got them off the bill and those two were shit. Players like Nasri and Dzeko are elite level players and we should have no problem getting them off the wage bill if required.

I get what you mean about their long term aspirations but I don't believe they will be here long term. Look at it the same way that you look at keeping Nimnley in the first team squad last year or Boyata's contract this year. They are here because we have external constraints keeping them here. Once these have gone we can get rid of them on our own terms. However, if they didn't get new deals then not only would the wage bill for UEFA not drop and allow us to sign these new players but we would also hand over the power of the transfer to them. We could have potentially cost ourselves millions of pounds because of it.

On the wage bill thing, it's not really important whether the grand total wages of these two or any of the new contracts come out more in the end. The only issue is that performance related bonuses do not count towards the wage bill for the purposes of FFP and that's why they got new deals lowering their basic wage in a year when we have constraints placed on our wage bill growth

 

[BobKowalski]

I think this will probably prove to us what type of boardroom we have.

I'm not so sure about that because I think ultimately the boardroom can only react to what's going on on the pitch. It may well be that Soriano and Begiristain and Khaldoon would prefer to leave Pellegrini in charge for the remainder of his contract, but if the players aren't putting the requisite efforts in to ensure that the results are coming they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's a cliche but the manager always carries the can no matter what the players end up doing.

For me I'd like Pellegrini to arrest this slide more than anything. He's a top top manager who's conduced himself with nothing but class. In Khaldoon or Begiristain's shoes I'd be selling 7/8 first team players next summer and giving Pellegrini a totally refreshed squad for the final year of his contract.

The problem is that so much of football is driven by narrative and the narrative around Pellegrini is bad and is only going to get worse no matter what results come now. He's pretty much been a non entity for the media from the day he walked in the door. For a lot of supporters he's just the guy who replaced Mancini. There isn't enough love around for him for me to envisage a scenario where he can turn the tide in his favour. I also don't know what i'd think if the players turned up after the International break and suddenly were playing back to their best.

As Moomba says there's an underlying problem we'll have to root out at some point. So many shades of Chelsea and the various managers who ended up being ousted because of certain factions in the dressing room not putting it in when required.

You are one 'top' away from a full on Merson.

On a more serious note I am totally opposed to mid season sackings. It's an admission of failure of planning. If Mancini can get second and a cup final when no one can stand him at the club I am sure Pellers can secure second as a minimum this season given he clearly has a much better relationship with the powers that be than Roberto and I will assume also with the players or at any rate it cannot be worse than Roberto who never cared in the first place.

If it is deemed that Pellers cannot guarantee a top 3 finish then it is a failure of the board first and foremost as clearly they should not be appointing managers who cannot guarantee this minimum requirement. Personally I think we are over reacting here as it will take only a small upturn in performance levels to get top three and then everything is reviewed as always in the summer.

 

[Anonymous]

I understand why folks are saying "...the constant is the players..." etc given how things panned out under Mancini and are now under Pellegrini; but let's make no mistake here - Mancini, as has been relentlessly pointed out, was the architect of his own downfall not the players and my opinion is that it is the same with Pellegrini (i.e. architect of his own downfall).

Quite simply, the fundamental problem at the moment is that Manuel cannot find a system that consistently gets the best out of this team. He needs to find it and find it fast.

If he could crack that I'm sure we'd all go back to simply waiting for Pep to finish at Bayern so that the transition can be done seamlessly and without the usual acrimony.

 

[robbieh]

Sometimes a manager is not needed. Chelsea made two CL finals under Avram Grant and Di Matteo, neither of whom are stellar managers. The players dragged the club through. Strong personalities like Drogba, Terry and Lampard.

However generally speaking it's a good idea to have a good coach if sustained League performance is required.

City's problem is that while some of our players are world class, the manager's have been mid table performers. Mancini had a good CV but no one seems to want him now, whereas Pellegrini had an OK cv, but if he got sacked by City not sure he'd ever get a top gig again.

I don't buy the idea that there are only a handful of managers better than Manuel. After all he is currently getting done by the likes of Pardew, Redknapp and Fat Sam. It may be true that we only know the names of a few, Pep, Klopp. Mou etc but there sure as hell are guys out there who would do a better job.

 

[Damanino]

All this waiting on Pep seems funny to me. What if Barca calls him back and he fancies the chance to go back there? Then we waited for a few years for him not making important steps maybe for our own good but then left with trouble?

There is no guarantee Pep will want to come here, his friend is Txiki I know, but wasnt that big friend to say to him that wait, dont jump into Bayern, we are gonna axe Mancini in May thats when you come here my friend. Cant we expect any CL success like a fucking quarter finals (thats not CL success by any mean only compared to our recent fiascos) until Pep comes here?
Seems like that unfortunately.

Can even see him ending up at Arse or Manure, what then?

Its a very dangerous game if we really wait for Pep and not making some big steps for our own good until then. What if PSG will put in a better offer for him? And he opts to live with his family in Paris not in rainy Manchester?

 

[cleavers]

The biggest mistake our club performed was off the pitch. Handing contracts to players who had served their purpose but was time to move on.

Disagree. We lowered their wage which allowed us to bring in new signings, and we ensured that we're not in a position where a potential £20m player like Dzeko or Nasri could just walk away on a free after a year.

Those new contracts were the finest piece of business this club has done post-takeover. We actually acted like a competent business for once.

I agree, even if the plan was for a rebuild, its better to have them with 3 years left next summer than 0 or 1.

 

[cleavers]

Seems ludicrous to be discussing axing the guy who won us 2 trophies last season. However we live in the now and it's clear that despite Pellers positive words that all is not well. Has he lost the dressing room?, are the players confused and disillusioned with his tactics perhaps?.
Far to many players are on easy street and getting away with it.

We only realistically have the FA Cup to play for and a fight (on current form) to remain in the top 4. Chelsea will have it won by April no doubt about it.

I'd give the job to Viera ASAP.

This

Nobody with an ounce of sense would currently give the job to Vieira at this point, other than on a very temporary basis, might as well give it Kidd again. If you ambition for this club, you let Vieira get on with getting on with the academy, and growing his own worth, in 2 or 3 years time he (and his academy prospects) will be ready, and then we get all holistic, now certainly is not that time.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Seems ludicrous to be discussing axing the guy who won us 2 trophies last season. However we live in the now and it's clear that despite Pellers positive words that all is not well. Has he lost the dressing room?, are the players confused and disillusioned with his tactics perhaps?.
Far to many players are on easy street and getting away with it.

We only realistically have the FA Cup to play for and a fight (on current form) to remain in the top 4. Chelsea will have it won by April no doubt about it.

I'd give the job to Viera ASAP.

This

Nobody with an ounce of sense would currently give the job to Vieira at this point, other than on a very temporary basis, might as well give it Kidd again. If you ambition for this club, you let Vieira get on with getting on with the academy, and growing his own worth, in 2 or 3 years time he (and his academy prospects) will be ready, and then we get all holistic, now certainly is not that time.

If though the decision is taken that we will be dispensing with MP, and a mid-season bullet is necessary, then I'd happily go with Vieira on a short-term basis to take us through until the end of the season.

Can't see him being the kind of guy that takes any shit from pampered stars.